Mark Carney

Yeah, that's right. You could almost say that Europeans have enjoyed a holiday from history for the past few decades. They've really been able to build societies around an economic and social model that would have been different if they'd had very much of a security and defense mindset.

Yeah, that's right. You could almost say that Europeans have enjoyed a holiday from history for the past few decades. They've really been able to build societies around an economic and social model that would have been different if they'd had very much of a security and defense mindset.

There was a very interesting speech by a senior British retired military officer in which he said that young people in Britain were should accept the fact that they're now part of what he called a pre-war generation. In other words, that they should think of the prospect of going to war as something that might really happen.

There was a very interesting speech by a senior British retired military officer in which he said that young people in Britain were should accept the fact that they're now part of what he called a pre-war generation. In other words, that they should think of the prospect of going to war as something that might really happen.

That's something that is really quite alien to the post-war European experience. It really changes the identity of what it means to be European. And that's perhaps the biggest challenge of all.

That's something that is really quite alien to the post-war European experience. It really changes the identity of what it means to be European. And that's perhaps the biggest challenge of all.

Well, that adds an extra layer of complexity to the issue because as Europe contemplates making these very heavy investments in defense, they're also having to deal with new economic headwinds in the form of tariffs that the Trump administration has imposed on the EU and on Britain for initially steel and aluminum. But he's promised to impose them on a much broader range of products.

Well, that adds an extra layer of complexity to the issue because as Europe contemplates making these very heavy investments in defense, they're also having to deal with new economic headwinds in the form of tariffs that the Trump administration has imposed on the EU and on Britain for initially steel and aluminum. But he's promised to impose them on a much broader range of products.

Most recently, a 200% tariff on European wines and liquors. And you've seen the European Union retaliate by imposing their own tariffs on American products. So they're facing the prospect of economic growth being strangled, their exports being strangled, their costs going up. At the very moment that they're asking their

Most recently, a 200% tariff on European wines and liquors. And you've seen the European Union retaliate by imposing their own tariffs on American products. So they're facing the prospect of economic growth being strangled, their exports being strangled, their costs going up. At the very moment that they're asking their

electorates to make difficult decisions in terms of perhaps accepting cuts in other social programs or higher taxes to pay for more military spending. So Donald Trump is asking more at the very moment that he's also making life harder for European leaders.

electorates to make difficult decisions in terms of perhaps accepting cuts in other social programs or higher taxes to pay for more military spending. So Donald Trump is asking more at the very moment that he's also making life harder for European leaders.

Well, I'd say they're hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. So in addition to all the preparations they're making for a world without the U.S., you're also seeing some European leaders try to salvage the transatlantic alliance. The British prime minister, Keir Starmer, has been working the phones, talking to President Trump.

Well, I'd say they're hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. So in addition to all the preparations they're making for a world without the U.S., you're also seeing some European leaders try to salvage the transatlantic alliance. The British prime minister, Keir Starmer, has been working the phones, talking to President Trump.

He's been trying to act as a bridge between President Trump and Vladimir Zelensky to keep the U.S. part of the conversation, to perhaps persuade the U.S. to provide some form of security guarantee for the Ukrainians. And it's had perhaps some marginal effect. After cutting off intelligence sharing and military aid to Ukraine, the U.S. has now restored those two important elements.

He's been trying to act as a bridge between President Trump and Vladimir Zelensky to keep the U.S. part of the conversation, to perhaps persuade the U.S. to provide some form of security guarantee for the Ukrainians. And it's had perhaps some marginal effect. After cutting off intelligence sharing and military aid to Ukraine, the U.S. has now restored those two important elements.

So even as the deeper questions are being asked about the future of the alliance, there's still an effort by European leaders to keep the U.S. in the mix. And I think what that reflects, above all, is a recognition that this process of building an independent European defense capability is such a generational challenge that you simply don't want the U.S. to walk away entirely.

So even as the deeper questions are being asked about the future of the alliance, there's still an effort by European leaders to keep the U.S. in the mix. And I think what that reflects, above all, is a recognition that this process of building an independent European defense capability is such a generational challenge that you simply don't want the U.S. to walk away entirely.

And that's what a lot of this frantic diplomacy has been about.

And that's what a lot of this frantic diplomacy has been about.