Mark Rutte

This was there since Eisenhower.

He was able to solve it.

So I think it was one of his biggest foreign policy successes.

So he was already committed to NATO.

But this irritant, this big pebble in the shoe was there, and it had to be removed.

Yes, I always felt confident about NATO, but I think President Trump coming into office has really helped.

Because I spoke to many countries in November, December, not yet on 2%, all 2% from 2014.

We had to achieve by 2024, 2025.

who told me, oh, difficult mark, I'm not sure we can get, oh, how do we do this?

And then Trump came into office in January, and from February and March, the phone calls came in.

All countries not in 2% said, ah, we're going to get to 2% this year.

And then we came to the NATO summit, and we were able, with 32 countries, to agree on the 5%, not only because Trump needed this,

as a win to show to the American people that we are equalizing the spending between the U.S.

and Europe, but also in Europe and in the U.S.

and in Canada, because we have to defend ourselves against the Russian threat, the Chinese challenge.

It's there, and we cannot do that with 2%.

We have to get to that 5%.

But we will spend more because otherwise... Are you worried he might turn his back though? No, I'm not because it won't come to that. And I don't want to spend more because of Donald Trump. So he's right that we have to spend more. Absolutely. He was right. He is still right. But when you look at the facts, we should not need Donald Trump to decide to spend more on defense.

But we will spend more because otherwise... Are you worried he might turn his back though? No, I'm not because it won't come to that. And I don't want to spend more because of Donald Trump. So he's right that we have to spend more. Absolutely. He was right. He is still right. But when you look at the facts, we should not need Donald Trump to decide to spend more on defense.

We have to do it because it is in our interest.