Mark Rutte

And then Trump came into office in January, and from February and March, the phone calls came in.

All countries not in 2% said, ah, we're going to get to 2% this year.

And then we came to the NATO summit, and we were able, with 32 countries, to agree on the 5%, not only because Trump needed this,

as a win to show to the American people that we are equalizing the spending between the U.S.

and Europe, but also in Europe and in the U.S.

and in Canada, because we have to defend ourselves against the Russian threat, the Chinese challenge.

It's there, and we cannot do that with 2%.

We have to get to that 5%.

But we will spend more because otherwise... Are you worried he might turn his back though? No, I'm not because it won't come to that. And I don't want to spend more because of Donald Trump. So he's right that we have to spend more. Absolutely. He was right. He is still right. But when you look at the facts, we should not need Donald Trump to decide to spend more on defense.

But we will spend more because otherwise... Are you worried he might turn his back though? No, I'm not because it won't come to that. And I don't want to spend more because of Donald Trump. So he's right that we have to spend more. Absolutely. He was right. He is still right. But when you look at the facts, we should not need Donald Trump to decide to spend more on defense.

We have to do it because it is in our interest.

We have to do it because it is in our interest.

But both are true. He did roll his tanks into Ukraine. Why couldn't he roll his tanks into the United Kingdom? Yeah, not a NATO member state. But at the same time, if NATO is not in four or five years able to keep up the deterrence, which is necessary to make sure that Putin will not do that, why would he not roll his tanks into Poland or...

But both are true. He did roll his tanks into Ukraine. Why couldn't he roll his tanks into the United Kingdom? Yeah, not a NATO member state. But at the same time, if NATO is not in four or five years able to keep up the deterrence, which is necessary to make sure that Putin will not do that, why would he not roll his tanks into Poland or...

fly out his missiles to the United Kingdom or to The Hague. So there is a risk. And you are right also that already at this moment we are faced with, and I hate this word hybrid, but when you look at cyber attacks, look what happened in the UK with assassination attempts in Salisbury.

fly out his missiles to the United Kingdom or to The Hague. So there is a risk. And you are right also that already at this moment we are faced with, and I hate this word hybrid, but when you look at cyber attacks, look what happened in the UK with assassination attempts in Salisbury.

When you look at sabotage, what he is doing with jamming in the Baltics of commercial flights, it is presenting a big risk. So that's happening already.

When you look at sabotage, what he is doing with jamming in the Baltics of commercial flights, it is presenting a big risk. So that's happening already.