Matt Bernstein

So today I want to demystify this 36-year-old who's built an underworld much, much, much bigger than herself, but is also at the same time just a girl from Connecticut.

And to do that, I am so excited to welcome back Taylor Lorenz to the podcast.

Taylor...

I talk a lot on this podcast about figures that become my fixations, my sort of like obsessions that I'm not proud of.

The most notable example of this was Deborah Messing, who for like a really long time, I was just unable to look away from, even as she was going down this Zionist spiral that like nobody else really paid attention to or cared about because she hadn't made work.

And

multiple decades, but it's neither here nor there.

I feel like Candice is this person for you.

When I reached out about making this episode, you straight up were like, yes, let's do it.

I watch Candice Owens every single night.

In the last few days, while I've been outlining for this episode, I watched some of her live streams.

And the rate at which comments come in is so like, oh, my God, she's so famous.

And for a long time, I didn't really and we'll get into this.

But like, I didn't really pay attention to Candace Owens, because I understood what she was doing.

And I didn't really care about it.

Like she was another person who belongs to a minoritized population.

who was sort of allowing the right to tokenize that thing about herself.

So she could tell these racist white people enacting racist legislation that they weren't racist because look, they have Candace and there's gay influencers who do this.

There's trans influencers who do this.

I know this game and,