Matt Ford

So if there are moments in the day that contradict that narrative, we're more likely to leave them out.

Or is it not approached like that?

In retrospect, perhaps, these viewers formed that reality TV around this time was basically becoming sadistic.

And that people were cast to sort of deliberately reveal the worst parts of their personalities and TV producers were thinking of every inventive ways to create conflict.

I remember one in, I think it was in the Civilian series of Big Brother where...

People were just like with their nuts and bolts.

And it was basically a pointless task.

Maxwell.

Yeah, he went mad.

Obviously, alcohol played a part as well.

But, you know, did you ever work with people where you thought, oh, God, I think they're getting off on the tension too much?

Or are you basically just trying to have fun and think of new inventive ways because it's a TV show that has to evolve?

And only in retrospect are the public who were loving it at the time now saying, oh, actually, this was awful.

And this is before the argument.

And what was the feeling within the team at that point?

Because you're simultaneously, you've got, by any measure, now the most talked about TV show on the planet, but it's a point of kind of maximum peril because you simultaneously create the hit and a massive international news story that the Prime Minister gets drawn into.

So are you thinking, in some way, this is a success?

Or are you thinking we are seconds away from being closed down?

Rather than just a sort of TV reality row.

Yeah.