Matt Fradd

And so I think that's right.

I mean, you just look at those old William Lane Craig debates.

The way he would turn...

Hitchens into a pretzel.

Just so calm, and he's like, I know exactly what I'm saying, and I know exactly what you don't know, and I'm going to show you.

Exactly, yeah.

God bless Craig, hey?

I mean, I know it's like a human thing to...

follow someone for a while until you kind of get over them and then you start getting critical of them.

But he did so much for Christian apologetics.

Oh, absolutely.

All of us guys were listening to him.

Yeah, well, let's talk about atheism for a little bit, since this is kind of how you cut your teeth as an apologist.

Were you an atheist growing up?

It's weird, isn't it, how public opinion influences people?

And by people, I mean me.

You just think of the different waves of...

isms that roll through culture and make them seem maybe okay.

You know how they say people usually vote the way their neighbors vote?

I mean, you see why that's the case.