Matt Jones

A big optics guy.

But that's good because it's the one thing that keeps him connected to reality.

Because when you surround yourself with people that won't question you, Billy, that's bad.

Yes.

So Obama was very big.

Well, it starts with Abraham Lincoln.

There was a book called Team of Rivals where Abraham Lincoln had been fighting with all these people because the union wins the...

uh, or, you know, the union, we're in a civil war.

And rather than just getting everybody that agrees with him, Lincoln takes all of the people who were people that disagreed with him, but we're on the union side and he creates a cabinet full of them.

He called it the team of rivals.

And the idea was if all these people who disagree with me are together, I'll get the best advice.

And it worked right.

Sure.

Then fast forward, justice Scalia on the Supreme court, uh,

Every year we'd have one liberal clerk, two conservatives, one liberal.

And he would give his hardest opinions to the liberal.

He wanted to know what are the criticisms of what I'm thinking and how can I make myself better?

That's really smart.

Obama, he made sure to always have one Republican in his cabinet.

That's where I'd heard, yeah.