Melissa Chen

They don't really want to show that they're suffering.

But their factories, their tin pot refineries have been relying on discounted Iranian oil.

Exactly.

And so what Trump wants is China, you're suffering because of this war.

You should be helping us.

You want to prove that you're a responsible world actor?

Help us pressure the Iranians because China is the only one that has leverage on the Iranians.

I don't know if he meant that, but ironically... It's working out that way.

It's working out that way that if you actually look, if Trump went to China on January 1st of this year, he would not have the cards he has now.

Because after the movement on Venezuela, after the movement on Panama, after the movement on Iran, it turns out that the United States actually has choke point leverage on China.

So they have extra cards.

And the Chinese do have leverage.

No, I totally agree because short of kinetic, ultimately, America doesn't want to get into a war with its near peer, right, which is China.

We're trying to avoid that.

And so the whole strategy is to deny them in different domains.

And one of them is choke points.

it requires constant vigilance because it's not just on choke points.

It is on trade.

It is denial of any kinds of leverage the Chinese have because they've kind of mastered the art of even turning...

economic engagements into political warfare, right?