Meryl Horne

This episode was produced by me, Meryl Horne, with help from Wendy Zuckerman, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang, and Aketi Foster-Keys.

We're edited by Blythe Terrell.

Mix and sound design by Bumi Hidaka.

Fact-checking by Sam Lemenick.

Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Bobby Lord, and Emma Munger.

Thanks to all the researchers we spoke to for this episode, including Professor Bruce Miller, Dr. Christopher Madden, Professor Joel Kramer, Professor Mark Roy, Professor Sarah Raskin, and Professor Stephen Dikosky.

Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original.

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