Michael Levin
speaker
1,198 appearances
4 recordings
1 series
first heard Jan 2025
last heard Apr 2025
Michael Levin’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
But but in the ideal case, it's the it's the story itself.
And and the reason I bring this up is um not not not only because I there are some actual uh biomedical implications of thinking it of it this way, in particular on bioelectricity, asking whether
whether it's the body that tries to uh operate on bioelectric patterns or whether it's the patterns that are actually driving and pulling the biochemistry with it.
There are some very specific experimental implications of that.
But but but you know part of I I I think you and I are are in re qu in agreement on
on the on the need for for the self to be a process.
But I I'm I'm worried that it might sound to people listening that it's a kind of um at le and at least for my end it's not meant to be, a kind of uh deflation or a it you know, a nothing butism, you know what I mean?
That that it's like, well it's a story and i in a in a way that it tends to reduce it like it's just a story.
It isn't you know, it isn't real.
And and for me, I I I th I think
it's the best kind of story there is, which is a you know, a s a s a self-referential loop that um actually locks itself into existence and it's not the physical machine that might or might not d um dilute itself with that story, but actually it it is the the the story is the is the thing.
And and and the rest of it is just trying to sort of keep keep up and implement it.
But
But the the structure of the pattern is uh is is is a thing.
And it's, you know, to me it's it's it's a real it's a real and important uh an important thing.
So what so what do you think about that, this this idea of taking the perspective of uh of of of the pattern as opposed to the machine and and thinking about things like, you know, you can have fleeting thoughts and then you can have sort of persistent uh uh thoughts that do a little bit of niche construction in the brain are actually quite hard to get rid of.
Right.
You you
know about m I'm sure more about this than I, but Gio Pazzulo and I just uh just wrote something on on niche construction by uh by mental um mental constructs, right?
And then you have things like like, you know, maybe maybe uh a personality fragments and then of course full full human selves and so on.
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