Michael Levin

Yeah, stay tuned.

I mean, this is exactly what we're doing.

We're getting progressively like more and more unconventional.

I mean, so this whole distinction between software and hardware, I think it's a super important concept to think about.

And yet, the way we've mapped it onto the world, I would like to blow that up in the following way.

And again, I want to point out, so I'll tell you what the practical consequences are, because this is not just, you know, fun stories that we tell each other.

These have really important research implications.

Think about a Turing machine.

So one thing you can say is the machine's the agent, it has passive data, and it operates on the data.

And that's it.

The story of agency is the story of whatever that machine can and can't do.

The data is passive and it moves it around.

You can tell the opposite story.

You can say, look, the patterns on the data are the agent.

The machine is a stigmergic scratchpad in the world of the data doing what data does.

The machine is just the consequences, the scratchpad of it working itself out.

And both of those stories make sense depending on what you're trying to do.

Here's the biomedical side of things.

So our program in bioelectrics and aging, okay?

One model you could have is the physical organism is the agent and the cellular collective has...