Michelle Segar

And then there's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear.

And the grandchild stops.

They think about it for a second.

They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins?

And the grandparent says, the one you feed.

So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

I like that energy idea, the energy and where we focus.

And a lot of your focus is, you can correct me if I say this wrong, but you are very focused.

I would call you a behavior change researcher, but I would say that you're focused primarily on the behavior change of exercising.

Yes, I think that's a good way to say it.

You are focused on the sort of changes that you don't do for a season that you ideally do for a life, you know, lasting and sustainable change.

And you're right there.

There are slightly different skill sets that are needed to begin something and also to keep it going.

And oftentimes the energy that we bring to the beginning actually can sabotage us in the keeping it going.

So the reason that you and I are talking beyond the fact that we like to talk is that you've published some new research.

And I'd like to go into it because in my book, there's a whole section called The Middle Way.

And it explores the middle way from a lot of different angles.

But one of the angles that it explores it through is this idea of all or nothing thinking.

And you recently have done research, I believe maybe some of the first research, to examine what all or nothing thinking does to our abilities to sustain an exercise habit.