Mike Katz

But you realize after a while what it's really teaching you is how to see.

And that was a really important insight for me that sort of like,

Bad drawings come from bad seeing.

And it opened up a sort of a world to me that I hadn't known about.

There's a guy named Damon Chan who's doing really well.

He made a testimonial.

Yeah, which is, you know, it seems so.

simple.

It's like, it's like, yes, of course, everybody needs a testimonial, you know, and he, he did a really good job with it.

And he's also balancing other projects as well.

So he, he's a good example of someone who I'd be happy if I was doing what he's doing.

Well, so online tool.

I'm trying to think.

I've used Figma a bit, but I tend to, honestly, I tend to just draw my mock-ups directly in Paint.net for Windows.

I got fast at that.

So I'm trying to think of online tool.

I mean, I rely on Visual Studio Code and a bunch of plugins constantly.

That's sort of my most efficient tool.

Boy, that's a tricky question.

I would call it maybe three plus two plus one, which reflects two naps that I had.