Mike Pesca

And look, it it it got her the BBC job.

And then, of course, she had to fall on her sword for something that happened below her.

But that's also says something about her, meaning like she sort of she gets it.

OK, that's on me.

I that, you know, I'm the buck stops with me.

So I'm all for seeing disruption because I've seen.

Network executives that just try to placate the bosses, right, don't succeed.

And so my only question of her decision was, you left the Times because you didn't like working for the Salzburgers.

Are you sure you wanted to give up your independence to work for the Ellisons?

Right.

Like that would be, and that's like, to me, the biggest, it's funny, I also think this has been

a turning point for the collective media, meaning that you're starting to see the audience feel more comfortable in the independent spaces.

You're seeing more people feel more comfortable trying to launch in the independent space.

And, you know, I'm I'm I'm pessimistic that any of the legacy media companies can be they have good brands and they can certainly tweak shows and use their resources, you know, specific.

I just don't know if any of the legacy news divisions are ever going to be what they were.

Right.

Because there's no money in it.

Right.

There's no financial incentive.

It is really it's just about whether, you know, in the case of the Ellisons, like here'd be my fear if I were Barry.