Mike Zisman

If you want to get really good multiples, you got to be growing.

I mean, people don't pay high multiples for companies that are just flat.

They'll pay six or seven times cash flow.

Right.

And so, you know, we are very focused on growth and investing into it.

So my view is I've never believed in, you know, growth at all costs.

losing money.

It's very hard to make the transition from losing money to making money.

And you're, you know, the fuse is on.

If you keep losing money, you know, eventually you've burned out and, you know, bad stuff can happen.

So my strategy is earn 20% and invest the rest.

So we consistently earn about 20% EBITDA margin, invest the rest.

It took us eight years to get to a million and eight more years to get to 50 million.

And I look at SaaS, you know, when you're selling SaaS subscriptions back then, it was like 2,500 a pop.

You got to sell a lot of subscriptions.

It took a while.

I funded the company personally, but from 2009 to 2020, I funded the company with about $10 million.

My own money.

Mostly is debt.

What I love about our company is most of the stock is owned by employees.