Mikie Sherrill
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You know what? I probably should say world adjusted. I'm doing great. I just had a wonderful Thanksgiving. My daughter is in the Navy. She's at the Naval Academy Prep School. So she was just home. And I saw her. And then I just announced I'm running for governor. So I'm very excited about that. that. I'm sort of, you know, an action-oriented person.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
It's such an incredible slap in the face to every woman who has served. You know, I've spoken to friends of mine I graduated from the Naval Academy with. I've spoken to Marine Corps veterans and aviators and
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I've spoken to women who work closely with the Lioness squads, who were the squads that helped clear homes and got valuable intelligence information from the women in the homes that they were clearing. I mean, I've spoken to so many people, and I think until... this nomination, there was this sense that things were on such strong ground.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I mean, we've had, you know, from my class, the first female commanding officer of an aircraft carrier. We now have the first female superintendent, the first female chief of naval operations. And all of that tracks back to when I graduated from the academy 30 years ago, and the combat restrictions on ships and aircraft were lifted.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Because you can't fully participate in the military as somebody who's going to be competitive if you don't go into combat, if you don't go on a combatant ship, if you don't go into combat aircraft, if you aren't on the ground in combat. And by the way, this idea that somehow... combat is like trench warfare and here's the combat line for the men and the women are back there as the nurses.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I mean, that is so antiquated. The way we fight today is so different from that. And combat is sort of these combatant roles are enmeshed in so many different ways in so many different positions. So, you know, we go from when I was at the Naval Academy to the chief of naval operations, who was a submariner.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
When someone stood up at a brigade meeting and stood up and said, when are you going to let women on submarines? And he derisively said, not in my lifetime, to a standing ovation to actually the USS New Jersey being the first fast attack purpose-built sub to have women on board. You know, that felt to me like, wow, such a momentous thing. And yes, I am very proud it's named the USS New Jersey.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So that's such movement and progress. And when you see everything, you know, I was speaking to somebody who was telling me at the Naval Academy, some of the women there are so physically fit and in such great shape and such leaders that some of the men there say, oh, I'm going to go work out with her because she's going to help me get in shape. Like, I want to be in sick shape. So she's a beast.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I'm going to go do that kind of thing. And so, you know, we're seeing such great leadership, such great opportunities, such such exciting stuff going on in our force. And that is how we have a ready force.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And to see somebody who just sees women in the role of, as I guess he said at one of his jobs, which he was, of course, let go from party girls or not party girls who, you know, has a credible assault allegations who had to be carried out of a group team meeting, uh,
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And by the way, the group team meeting at I think his in his leadership was taking place at a strip club because of his intoxication. You know, you're just looking at somebody. Why? Why? Like, it just feels like such a really an F you to women. It's like I am putting this particular person up for this role because I just want it. I just want to show how little I respect the service of women.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So in the wake of the election, having a mission, a plan, it just felt good, I have to say.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I just want it to be clear to everyone that I totally feel this disregard for women. That's what it feels like. It feels like a gut punch.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You know, this is to their credit. I mean, this is why I'm so impressed often with people who join our military, because there is something special. very much in the line of public service about it. You don't join the military because you're gonna get rich. You don't join the military to make a million dollars.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You in fact join the military to do some really grueling work for some really bad pay and some really yucky places, right? But you do it because you have this sense of pride And you do it because you want to protect people, because you want to protect the nation, because you want to protect our values, because you care about the Constitution.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And so I will tell you, I have not heard one person in the military say, oh, I don't want Pete Hegseth to be there because it would be humiliating and degrading to report to him. It certainly would.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
No, it would. No, it would.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Let's be clear. However, what I hear is their deep fear for the security of the nation. So if he is intoxicated and, you know, we're talking about whether or not Russia has just launched a nuke or what's going on in Taiwan in the middle of the night, like or, you know, a ship being attacked in the Straits of Hormuz, who's making decisions then? And oh, by the way.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I have been in the situation room to talk about concerns I've had under a Trump administration with the president not reading his presidential briefing book. The excuse for not addressing something was, oh, he didn't read it. So who's in charge here of our national security? Who's in charge of our defense? Who's making those decisions?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And who's getting in the president's ear to make these decisions? And if it's Pete Hegseth, I think we're all in a great deal of trouble.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
It's so I mean, should we? Maybe yes. Right. Maybe maybe the answer should be let them die on the vine. Show the nation what true Republican majority actually looks like if left to their own devices. It's just not how we're built. Right. Like I can't sit there and watch somebody take our country down because it's not a zero sum game. Maybe it should be.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Maybe I should think of it as a zero sum game. Republicans lose. Democrats win. I don't. We all lose, right? If the House of Representatives isn't functioning in any way, shape, or form, we all lose. We have to keep the government open. We have to engage in that, too. Are you sure? Are you sure? Well, I mean, I'm already frustrated. It sounds like we're going to have a continuing resolution.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So, first of all, that's just… you know, when you come from the armed services world and the national security world, that is such a huge waste of money at the very least for the Department of Defense. You can't have new start programs. You can't continue some of the ongoing programs to restart them once the new budget gets passed is a huge cost.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And we're doing all this as we're desperately trying to innovate and trying to meet the challenges of a really complicated world. So it's just a really horrible way to run a railroad. But where we're at is
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
you know, we are now, you know, we're going to see Republicans with some, some reconciliation bills, some bites at the apple of just having passing huge pieces of legislation through the Senate with a simple majority. We're really putting a lot of ability to get an agenda done in their hands. So just kind of, you know, not engaging or not, or letting them fail is,
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I think would really be a disservice. I think it would allow them to run with a very bad agenda. I think failing is maybe part of the agenda of some in the Republican Party, meaning that they don't like government and they just sort of want government to implode. So allowing that to happen would just seem to meet some of the agenda on the far right. But then the question is, what do we do?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
How do we keep moving forward in a way that keeps the country running and tries to block as much of a bad agenda as possible? And that's a tough one. I mean, it's really tough. I go back and forth. I didn't enter Congress to enter into the least productive Congress in the history of the nation, right? That was not my agenda. I told you I'm an action-oriented person.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Right? Well, that's the other side, right? I'm like, well, but if they're unproductive, at least they're not getting a really incredibly bad agenda passed that's going to punish women and roll back environmental protections in the wake of climate change. you know, defund some of the infrastructure programs that are so important to roads and bridges and tunnels, etc.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So, yes, but it's going to be a really delicate balance. I have to say that Hakeem Jeffries, I think, has been masterful for the last Congress at trying to navigate through these landmines and trying to keep pressure on the speaker for the Democratic agenda, even in a Republican majority. And I think, you know, we'll continue to press forward on that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You know, here we have a Trump administration that is purporting to go after political enemies. And so it's not like we're doing this or the president's looking at this in a vacuum and what might be coming and might the justice system really function well in the future with Kash Patel as the head of the FBI, for example. And yet...
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
At the same time, it does just undermine the credibility and faith in the Justice Department and faith in our leaders. And so I look at this, and this is why it just seems like we need a new generation of leaders. We need a fresh perspective.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
We need people who are committed to public service and who are going to put the country first and going to relentlessly advocate for people and advocate for our institutions so people can have faith in them. And so... This flies in the face of all of that. And that's why, you know, I think people are just looking at our government and saying kind of a pox on all their houses.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You know, this is just nobody's credible. Nobody's trustworthy. Nobody stands by their word. Nobody does what they say they're going to do. And so. And again, it's why I just keep going forward, trying to rebuild that faith and that credibility, committing to serve people and then doing it. And just kind of again and again and again and trying to build that faith back for people.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Yeah. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. We have to find those pathways for what we can do, what change that we can affect. And there's the, is it the serenity prayer or the prayer of St. Francis that, you know, you've got to understand. Yeah. you know, what you can change and what you can't change and knowing the difference.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You'll be surprised to hear no, I have not.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Wow. Wow. This is why, when you said you had a surprise question for me at the end, I knew to dread it. My instincts were correct. I have not watched Garden State in many moons. I have fond memories of it. It did hit a chord. I didn't really genderize the chord it hit necessarily. But now I feel like...
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I have to, at a minimum, I may not commit to rewatching it right this second, but at a minimum, I'm going to put that playlist on Spotify. So I'll get back to you. I'll get back to you on that one.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Sounds good. Thanks so much.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
www.mikeysherrill.com. There it is.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And, and I do think that that gives you a sense of purpose and direction. If you look for those areas that you can truly make a difference, as I said, it's, you know, early, it's why I'm running for governor. I feel, I feel as if that is the area and the States now, and this is a little bit new for Democrats, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I think we had relied on the federal government to protect a lot of rights and freedoms, the Supreme court. We are now looking to the States and, And I think it could be a very good place for us to redirect the party to really focus on those issues that I always say, you know, what's that last thing keeping you up at night? You know, maybe if you're a mom and, you know, you can't sleep, is it...
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Are you worried about your rent? Are you worried about your mortgage? Are you worried about your kids' mental health? Are you worried about your job? What is it that is that last thing that you're just lying awake thinking, how am I going to do this? And how can we... address that? How can we move forward?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Well, at the same time, I do think we need to relentlessly be the party of rights and freedoms as well. But I think we need to lead with our vision. And I think the election showed us that. I think we need to lead with a vision of how we're just going to make government work, how we're going to cut through red tape, how we're going to make sure that we are actually delivering for people.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And I say that because I have to tell you, you know, when I started running for Congress, People said, oh, why do you want to be in the house? You can't get anything done. You're going to be a freshman. Why bother, right? And I don't come from that place.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I think coming from the military, having that background, having that training, it's never an option in the United States military to say, the military doesn't work. It's too hard. We're just going to give up today. Let's all just skip the mission today and go take it easy. There's a saying, lead, follow, or get out of the way.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I mean, you have to choose where are you and how are you going to affect that change? And so to say government just doesn't work, so let's give up, that to me is just not an option. And so, you know, I went into Congress and in only my second term, I was named the most effective lawmaker in the New And again, it reminded me of that when I decided to run for governor.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
A lot of people said, Mikey, don't do it. You know, you can't get anything done. It's too broken. The budget's too tough. New Jersey transit's such a mess. It's just going to be bad for you. It's going to make you look bad because government can't function.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And I just looked at that and I thought, I'm not here because I don't get involved in public service because I'm thinking, oh my gosh, is this going to make me look good?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Am I going to get down to Trenton and suddenly be like, oh, wow, I'm in public service because I truly believe that well-run government can make people's lives better, that we have a duty to deliver for people, that when people are lying awake at night,
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
thinking of the things that are really problematic for them, that in the back of their mind, if they have a good governor of their state, they're thinking, but you know what? Mikey said she was really going to work hard on addressing this. And I'm going to go to bed now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And I'm just going to hope that tomorrow is better than today, because I know that she's got this and she's going to take care of this. So I can take this off my plate. And here's the million other worries I have. But this one, I know we have a good leader here that's going to really focus on how she's going to make sure that my life's a little bit easier tomorrow.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Yeah. So I think unlike some other states in 2023, we actually had our population grow in New Jersey. And I know, believe me, I live in the world. I hear what people say about our beloved state, but we love it. And obviously others are moving in and want to be in the state.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I'm going to New Jersey. Look at that. See, this is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. But I have to say, New Jersey is a fantastic state. It's a wonderful state just because of all it offers. It's an innovative state. It's an exciting state. It's a great place to raise a family. It has some of the best food. public school systems in the nation. So people love New Jersey.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
It's one of the states actually that traditionally has the most intergenerational families of any state in the nation, meaning that people who are born in the state and raise a family in the state want to retire in the state. Some of that is being broken though, just for the very reasons you're pointing out, a lot of it's cost of living.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And so we're seeing the cautionary tales of other blue states. We're not going to be able to continue to run the great economy that we've been successful at running, whether it's in some of our healthcare sectors, our pharmaceutical sectors, our medical device sector, our defense space sector, our space sector.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I mean, these are all growing places and they run in New Jersey because we have one of the most talented workforces in the nation. And that is a gift. I mean, that is great that we have that. But if we don't address affordability, if we don't address cost of living, we are going to very quickly see the problems that we're seeing in other blue states.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And we've already seen those problems in the electorate as they're weighing in and saying, you know. it's just getting too hard here. And how is it that in the richest country in the world and one of the richest states in the nation, I'm having such a hard time getting by? And so that is what we need to address. And that's what I've constantly been focused on in Congress.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So whether it's housing affordability, the legislation I have around grocery store prices, childcare costs, all of this is directed at lowering costs for everyday families. And that is what we have to really truly address, or we are going to see pretty quickly a lot of the problems you just discussed in other blue states.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Exactly. How dare they? How dare they?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I mean, build more is the start, right? So New Jersey has some legislation and court decisions around affordable housing. And so there's building requirements for affordable housing. But generally in our state, how developers do that is they build luxury apartment buildings. And then they have several affordable housing units within that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
But what we have in the state largely is this missing middle. So when I look at my town, I'm in Montclair. When I look at my town and try to think of when in my naval career I could have afforded anything in Montclair, New Jersey, it wasn't when I was an ensign. It wasn't when I was a Lieutenant JG. It wasn't when I was Lieutenant, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I'm not sure if there was a time while I was in the Navy that I could have afforded to live in my town. If my kids want to move back after their careers or after they get out of college, I don't know where they're going to live other than my home. Which I'm sure you're thrilled about. I'm sad my daughter's gone, but a lot of people might want some independence and have their own place.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I'm not sure my kids would be thrilled with moving back home as much as I'd like it. So where are people going to afford? And then if you're a senior... You're trying to figure out, I'd love to sell this home I'm in, but where are you going to move? Where are that kind of missing middle homes? How are we going to keep families there? How are we going to keep the workforce going?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
How are kids going to move off their parents' couches? That is all really too hard. What that does, too, is then that puts higher pressure on the rental market.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And so we're seeing people, you know, I heard of a woman who was telling me that someone in her office who she employs, who makes a really good salary and just had to move to a different town because the rents got too high and she had two dot school age kids. So that's like pulling them out of their school system and moving to another one. So I say you start moving.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
With some of these housing prices, and you've got to start by building. And when we look at the fact that in New Jersey, we're about 150,000 home units short of where we need to be to continue to move the workforce into the state and continue to innovate and move the jobs forward. That's a huge issue, especially... When you compare it to places like Florida that have an overabundance of homes.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And so, you know, here's the thing. I mean, maybe you make a calculation. You know, am I worried about my rights and freedoms in Florida? Sure. But do I really want to afford a home with a backyard and a swimming pool versus, you know, small two bedroom apartment with my three kids? You know, maybe that's a trade you take for obvious reasons. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
That is not the moniker I'm going for, but... The DeSantis of the left.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I think it's so key. I think it's both combating the excesses of the Trump administration, combating the bad economic decisions of the Trump administration, because people forget, with the chaos that he engenders, how really economically... tough it can be on families.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
So whether you're talking about in my state, the state and local tax deduction cap, or if you're talking about the failure to fund the Gateway Tunnel project as our transit system kept imploding, or you're talking about some of the attacks on the healthcare system so we couldn't move forward and driving down costs there, he was really impacting families.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And now he is, you know, with some of the discussion that he's had on tariffs and the discussions that he's had on how he is going to lead, that could very easily cost families thousands and thousands of dollars. If he's going to deport everyone, as he suggests, beyond some of the real fears that families have about their loved ones, you're also talking about how are we going to run our economy?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
That's why, you know, I've always been a fan of comprehensive immigration reform, making sure we have security at the border, processing at the border, but also pathways to citizenships for people who are working in our economy. So these things are going to be huge hits on everyday people. So a strong governor is going to need to punch back.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
I'm doing great. How are you? You said not great. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
And a strong governor is going to need to stand in the breach there and say, no, to me, it's not just about pushing back. That is not enough to say, oh, I'm going to be a strong defender of our values in the state and of running the state economy in the wake of the chaos coming out of Washington. That's not visionary. That's not visionary. future focus.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
You know, that might be something that people say, well, great, for four years, maybe things won't get worse here. But how are things going to get better?
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
Yeah, I think Democrats have to have a vision. And I think it's through the Democratic governors. And I actually think that could be very good for our party. I think we have a really strong bench. I think we have people that have created successful administrations and have done things that are very popular with people and have really impacted change. I think we have to come together.
The Bulwark Podcast
Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?
What is that vision of the Democratic governors of this country? And how do we execute it together?