Nat Towsen

That's the whole point of the show, right?

We want to have a civil discourse and actually address these issues.

I mean, I also appreciate him engaging with us on that stuff.

I'm a little different.

I didn't agree with him on a lot of things.

A lot I did.

Top down, a lot of it, I feel like we're in the same position of like, oh, yeah, we're being run by a petulant egotist.

When it comes to the characterization of the left and why we got here, I feel like he and I probably differ.

But he did sound like he was willing to listen and hear people out about that kind of thing.

So I thought it was a really productive conversation.

If he comes back, one thing I'd like to talk to him about more, Matt, is he was talking, you know, I think your great point about like, oh, part of the reason this crisis isn't worse is because of all these EVs.

Like EVs are actually helping us in a way that people aren't seeing or like delaying the...

I hope he does run with that, as he said he would.

I'd love to talk to him more because I know he supported a federal solar bill for federal buildings.

And I'd love to hear more how he thinks that we can...

structurally and culturally, because I do agree that we need to get used to waste not being a virtue.

I don't agree that consumers are going to fight climate change.

That's an old narrative that has already been debunked.

We can't do it by conserving as a consumer.

If corporations are still just burning fossil fuels, it's not going to make a difference if I recycle.