Natalie Kitroeff

So is the point of all of this effort, all of these stacks of drugs, all of the stuff he's taking, literally just to be beautiful for the sake of being beautiful?

But it's funny because, like...

OK, we're going to take one more break.

And when we come back, we're going to interrogate some of that.

We're going to talk about what this guy and his whole movement says about our culture right now and where it's headed.

We'll be right back.

Joe, there is obviously a complicated mess of ideas and impacts of all of this that we want to entangle.

But first, I want to ask you something that I think will resonate with many women listening to this, which is everything that you've described, the obsessive focus on your appearance, the hacking, the sometimes painful interventions.

This is not new for women.

This is like Tuesday, you know?

I mean, women have been, in a sense, forced to by the culture, by the expectations, looks max for generations.

You know, like, they don't just inject themselves with Botox, filler, everything else under the sun.

They regularly, from the age of 15, are waxing every part of their body.

I'm not speaking for all women, but many of us.

But what do you make of that, the kind of parallels here?

What about the fact that it's coming out so clearly with this group?

I

When we were in high school, it was not socially acceptable, I think it's fair to say, for many men, straight men, to openly even care about their appearance.

There was a stigma associated with that.

And now with this looks maxing community, it seems like, I don't know, there's not a lot of shame about it.