Natalie Kitroff

So you're saying part of this trust is really that Khamenei has deep ties with these people that go back years.

I mean, he trusts them because he's known them for a very long time and has worked directly with them.

Exactly.

So when you add this whole picture together, what you're describing is a pretty fundamental shift in the way that the entire country and its government works.

Before, the Supreme Leader empowered the guards, yes, but also directed them.

And now it kind of seems like the tail is wagging the dog.

We'll be right back.

Some songs that I've written, I started on the piano.

That happened with All I Want for Christmas is You.

Farnaz, just explain why it matters that the power structure in Iran, as you just told us, is shifting to one where the military, the guards really hold all the cards and the clerics are secondary.

Hold on.

What?

The military hardliners could be more pragmatic?

How?

So when you say these generals are not ideological, it sounds like what you're saying is they're not really driven as much by a cause.

They're driven essentially by self-preservation.

It is worth noting that this is definitely not how we've been talking about them up until this point.

We've been talking about them as hardliners.

But can I just raise a question about this on their pragmatism?

We have seen these generals in charge really willing to use hardline tactics like they've been willing to hold up the straight.