Nellie Simmons
Appearances
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Like not go into science at all. And some universities are already turning away prospective grad students because they aren't sure if they're going to have money to fund them. And overall, this could really just ultimately shrink American science and lead to fewer discoveries.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Yeah, similar to what Ping and Rob recounted, it's been a roller coaster. It started the week after inauguration when NSF canceled its grant reviews and then froze funding for grants that had already been awarded. Now, they did all this because they said that they needed time to review how their grant making process aligned with Trump's executive orders targeting DEI.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
So I talked to some researchers with these specific fellowships where their salaries get directly paid by NSF, and they couldn't pay for their rent, much less their own research. So funds started flowing again about a week later, but scientists are still really on edge. And that's because of this big review that NSF is doing of all their grants.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
They're screening all existing grants for basically like DEI words, things like diversity or underrepresented. Those words could appear on virtually all NSF grants because in the 90s, Congress mandated that NSF needs to consider how its grants will boost the participation of women and underrepresented groups in science.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Yeah. With the idea of broadening the sort of STEM workforce.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Yeah. And overall, this is just a huge departure from how science has been funded in the past. Like administrations do get to set priorities, but they don't usually go in and sort of say specific kinds of grants should or shouldn't get funded. And that appears to be what's happening now.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Now, some people argue that NSF shouldn't be considering diversity and funding at science, but only the science. But I talked to Neil Lane, who was the director of NSF from 1993 to 1998. And he said, It's totally unprecedented. Certainly during my time, there was never anything like this. I think they're killing science.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
So existing grants are getting paid out, but the DEI review of those grants is ongoing and it's unclear what will happen to grants that get flagged. NSF is also still awarding some new grants, but at significantly lower rates in certain areas, especially those targeting STEM education.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
And in response to a court order calling the firings of probationary employees illegal, NSF rehired 5% of their workforce. Still, NSF told staff to expect cuts of about 25 to 50%. And President Trump's proposed budget may still slash the agency's budget by billions. So there's just lots and lots and lots of uncertainty.
Short Wave
Is The Trump Administration Breaking Science?
Yeah, I've talked to a lot of researchers who are worried that prospective scientists are just going to look at the state of science now and decide they want to do something different.