Niall Donald

Is there release dates?

probably all cultures in a way, but it's very much a part of Irish culture that, you know, an informer.

You know, that's so baked into our history.

Like, I mean, you know, we don't have to go into the obvious reasons, but it really is far more part of our culture even than in the UK or other places like that.

But it's always more complex, isn't it?

Always.

And when you hear Joey's story, and I think

You know, the podcast as well, you know, it's very emotive, isn't it?

something that he was going to go off and end up on a desert rather the Caribbean with his cocktails this was not something that was done and we've seen people as well obviously come to the Witness Protection Programme having played active roles in the murders and having had no moral problem doing that and simply seeking to get off by getting involved in the Witness Protection Programme and Joey O'Callaghan clearly wasn't one of them people definitely not

And it is an issue that, you know, we've seen even in the Regency, a lot of guards have spoken, a lot of politicians have spoken about

and you know they've asked for people to come forward even in the case of the Kinnahans they've

It's part of the reward that's offered.

You're asking people to come forward.

But, you know, Joey O'Callaghan is an example where you have to say, if people do the right thing, then they have to be protected.

And the state should show that they can do that and they will look after them, not just in the months that it's required for them to appear in court, but in the long term.

I mean, that is a societal need.

Yeah, push it forward.

You see the problem with the state and criminal justice and you know sometimes we think very short term but you do need a long term thinking when it comes to people like Joey because they're hugely important you know and there is a societal need to look after them not just in the short term but in the long term.

And by their nature...

if they're witnesses in these sort of situations, they're coming with complex needs.