Niall Donald

Yeah, exactly.

Because life goes on, even though you can get out within 15, 17 years or whatever it is, even longer or shorter, but it's always hanging over and you can be brought back at any moment.

Now, each one of these people

that we've spoken about, the five people convicted already, and then the other people that we've spoken about, Douglas Glynn, Padraig Keating, they've all pled guilty when they've been hit with their book of evidence.

And most of them quite quickly.

Some of them took longer than others, but a lot of them pled really at the earliest stage.

Same as McGovern.

I mean, McGovern just got his book of evidence.

And within a number of weeks, he was basically indicating that he was going to take a guilty plea.

It took a little bit longer.

So they've got that, their lawyers have got that.

They've looked at everything that's there and they said, I have no hope of beating this.

And you take his guilty plea as early as possible.

that surely is a bad sign for Daniel Kinnan.

And you could argue that was... Desi Dundon famously, he's still there.

He was 21, 22, is he?

And he's in his 40s.

Yeah, now I think he'll get slightly longer myself, actually.

I think he'll get approaching that 20 years.

But he'll get credit, as you said, for an early guilty plea.