Niall Donald

Some of them took longer than others, but a lot of them pled really at the earliest stage.

Same as McGovern.

I mean, McGovern just got his book of evidence.

And within a number of weeks, he was basically indicating that he was going to take a guilty plea.

It took a little bit longer.

So they've got that, their lawyers have got that.

They've looked at everything that's there and they said, I have no hope of beating this.

And you take his guilty plea as early as possible.

that surely is a bad sign for Daniel Kinnan.

And you could argue that was... Desi Dundon famously, he's still there.

He was 21, 22, is he?

And he's in his 40s.

Yeah, now I think he'll get slightly longer myself, actually.

I think he'll get approaching that 20 years.

But he'll get credit, as you said, for an early guilty plea.

He'll get credit for not having a lot of criminal convictions in this country, which Daniel Kennan also doesn't have.

Now, if he had brought that to trial, Sean McGovern,

he could then potentially face a life sentence, couldn't he?

I mean, like, you know, he's very, very unlikely to now, in theory, the judge could come in on Friday and give him a life sentence, but it would seem to be unlikely.

Well, yeah.