Niall

But it was only when...

you know, when that aura was broken of them, they collapsed.

Now we know from what we've been, or at least we've been told that the Hennessys remain pulling strings from behind bars, getting their underlings on the outside to do stuff, including acts of violence, including attempts to

to collect money that they claim to be owed to them.

That is still going on.

If they go away for 20 years, that power is really diminished.

If people think they're going to be out in five or six, well, it's the threat that they pose remains a lot stronger.

For sure, for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about their DNA, but I mean, it's, you know, the remorse thing, you can't quantify if somebody is remorseful or not.

And you can look at, I mean, I'd say you can hear Devon's reported actions during that and you can see that, well, that's a man who...

who balks at that violence being committed on that man, not because he's in fear of being caught, but because he thinks this isn't right no matter what.

So you can find humanity there.

But the other four, it's very, very, very difficult.

Now you could say all of them have been subjected to violence or seen violence committed, for example, the murder of Jason Hennessy Senior and what consequence that has on their psychological makeup.

But yeah, it's hard to sit in that court case and think these guys are sorry for what they've done and when they're going to get out, they're going to turn their lives around and, you know, grow or, you know, it's very easy to sit there and have that moment of cynicism that this isn't the way it should be.

Yeah, and the culture maybe of the gangland culture they adopted and, you know, what, you know.

And how maybe they mix that mix of lack of sophistication and extreme violence.

It was genuinely a bit shocking there today.

It was.

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