Niall

So if you're saying, if you're acting as a devil's advocate, you would say, well, you don't know what sort of level of CCTV, for example, can be proven.

Can you see people going in and out?

Is there evidence to put them there?

I mean, look, you can't but sit there and hear that evidence given out and think this is, I mean, it is literally... It's mental.

It is literally a most horrific crime.

You know, it's not just even the violence inflicted on them, the threats...

The genuine belief that he's not going to make it out alive.

The fact that, you know, he's literally brought over to buy a piece of clothing.

He's not initiated something or there's no aspect that could be considered anything to do with self-defense or anything like that.

But we still don't know why that decision is made.

And you can point to the Regency.

Maybe you might say, well, if there was a lesser plea was offered to people, maybe they could have got a conviction.

And any time you go in and roll the dice in court, there's always a chance people would walk out.

But in this case, it seems to be, it's a very unsophisticated crime that's occurred.

We know what happened now.

This happened in their own back garden.

these guys aren't masked, they're not, there's nothing, you know, there's nothing to say that, like it looks like very open and shut.

In fact, I mean, the Dundon example is a great example because for a while it looked like Wayne and John Dundon in particular were bulletproof because nobody would speak to the guards about anything that they did.

And they seemed to be free all the time.

They were just half a step removed from the violence.