Niall

And Eamon Cumberton, of course.

And if you look back, if you go back on him, the connection between Cumberton, the connection between all of them into the Kinahan organisation is through Ross Browning.

Through Eamon Cumberton and Ross Browning.

Yeah.

Were both kind of fighting, were they kickboxing or one of those?

Yeah, they were doing some sort of martial arts.

Two further things to say before we finish up on this one and firstly just to touch on the prison system here in Ireland.

There would have been a lot of meetings and security meetings around Sean McGovern

and where he has held somebody as significant as that.

Obviously, Daniel Kinnehan's possible return has been discussed a number of times through the prison service.

I think there would be confidence that they would be capable of holding him in particular, ultimately, Port Leach Prison, the high security prison.

Now, there was at one point when a Dutch associate of the Kinnehans, Noaf Al-Fassi, was held there on remand.

There was a plot to

get him out of there, to blow him out of there.

And in actual fact, the intelligence between the European countries' police forces led to the Dutch military flying into Ireland and removing him from there.

I don't think there was fear that there was anyone going to actually

get away with it but when they're moving from place to place is where the risk is not when they're within the walls of Portlaoise prison which is highly secure obviously but bringing them to and from court is going to be a massive operation and will be I think Sean McGovern appeared on Video Link the last time at his own request whether or not he will go to sentencing he'll be there personally he doesn't have to be

No, he doesn't have to be.

And if the courts agree to that, I mean, I imagine that from a security point of view,

It is favourable for them not to be, even though justice is supposed to be served, you know, in a courtroom under normal procedures.