Nicola

should we know from what the American government and everybody else has said, that he is also in touch with one person.

He's taken orders directly from one person, and that person is Daniel Kinnan.

So there was, they were buying these BlackBerry phones and it had a

a precursor to, I suppose, EncroChat.

They had this pretty PGP, pretty good privacy.

So they were encrypted and you could delete them remotely if they were seized.

Now there was a number of these phones seized from different people over the policing of the feud.

Obviously the Emre Arrakis phone, but there was also one taken from Sean McGovern at one point when he was arrested for the murder of Noel Duckeye-Kirwan.

And there was like many others actually seized over time from lesser operatives.

So they had all these physical phones.

There was never a phone seized from Daniel Kinahan, but they ultimately, they were unable to break into them initially.

But they were, it is believed they were sent to the U.S.,

the US government, through some sort of cyber experts, were able to get into the phones and seem to have been able to, God only knows how, I don't, retrieve the messages.

So what you have in terms of wiping them remotely would be that, and I think we even heard about it in Maria Rackus's case, that they could initially see the messages and then somebody pressed the button and it all went blank.

so to you and me that looks like that's gone forever whether it's gone forever or

Nothing is gone forever because I mean I won't speak about things I don't definitely know about but really when you wipe anything digitally all you wipe is the pointer to the information.

The information on some level must be still on that phone and of course we haven't heard the details of this but we do know because we do know that the US government assisted and some of these messages must have been recovered.

One can only imagine Sean McGovern got his book of evidence and saw some of these messages detailed and thought I'm going to do the best I can here and plead guilty.

Now there's an interesting case actually that we've spoken about before involving a guy called Jay O'Connor.

Now Jay O'Connor was from Blanchardstown, former member of the Westies, very chaotic, dangerous criminal.