Noah Shachtman

Not just in the garden, but outside the garden.

like way outside the garden, outside of New York, hundreds of miles away.

If you've lived in New York, if you're a basketball fan over the last 10, 15 years, you've heard some version of the story of James Dolan is super paranoid.

Controlling.

Controlling, has a vast enemies list.

Yeah, this goes way beyond what happened to Oak.

What happened to Oak started way before the garden went high-tech in its security pursuits and surveillance pursuits, before it really fully developed this deep state.

Right.

But what...

shocked me as I learned this was just how relentless the pursuit of that enemies list was and how sophisticated that pursuit could be at times.

And I think to me, like the even scarier notion, right, is like Dolan is kind of a test case for this.

Yes, he's the future.

Honestly, I didn't either.

When I got started on this, I didn't think we'd get this deep, but we did.

I know.

I think what comes to mind immediately is the fedora.

Yeah.

His band was called J.D.

and the Straight Shot.

Yeah.