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Noam Shazeer

👤 Person
692 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

That seems like a nice trade-off to have because sometimes you

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

I want to think really hard because this is a super important problem.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

Sometimes you probably don't want to spend enormous amounts of compute to compute, you know, what's the answer to 1 plus 1?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

Maybe the system should decide to use it.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

You should decide to use a calculator tool or something instead of, you know, a very large language model.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

I mean, I think we do see some examples in our own sort of experimental work of things where if you apply more inference time compute, the answers are better than if you just apply, you know,

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

you know, X, you know, if you apply 10X, you can get better answers than X amount of computed inference time.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And that seems useful and important.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

But I think what we would like is when you apply 10X to get, you know, even a bigger improvement in the quality of the answers than we're getting today.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And so that's about, you know, designing new algorithms, trying new approaches, you know, figuring out how best to spend that 10X instead of X to improve things.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

I mean, I think search is – I really like Rich Sutton's paper that he wrote about the bitter lesson.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And the bitter lesson effectively is this nice one-page paper.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

But the essence of it is you can try lots of approaches.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

But the two techniques that are incredibly effective are learning and search.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And you can apply and scale those algorithmic or computationally, and you often will then get better results than any other kind of approach you can apply to a pretty broad variety of problems.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And so I think search has got to be part of the solution to spending more inference time as you want to maybe explore a few different ways of solving this problem.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

And like, oh, that one didn't work, but this one worked better.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

So now I'm going to explore that a bit more.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

I mean, I think one general trend is it's clear that inference time compute, you have a model that's pretty much already trained and you want to do inference on it, is going to be a growing and important class of computation that maybe you want to specialize hardware more around that.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer – 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI

You know, actually, the first TPU was specialized for inference and wasn't really designed for training.