Norman Finkelstein
speaker
305 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2024
last heard Mar 2024
Norman Finkelstein’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
That's great. At least I had a quote to cherry-pick.
No, all of Palestine?
Could you show me Professor Morris? In all the negotiations, all the negotiations and all the accounts that have been written, can you show me one? where the Palestinians in the negotiations, because that's what we were talking about, wanted all of Israel. The maximum- They can't say that because the international community won't accept it.
No, I know, but they represent a lot of the Palestinian people, you will agree. The only place I saw pieces of Israel were the land swaps. And the land swaps accounted for about two to five percent of Israel. Nobody asked for all of Israel.
OK, Mr. Bonnell. We were talking about the diplomatic negotiations. beginning with 2000, 2001.
What was the terms of that Egypt-Israel peace treaty? International law. Egypt demanded every... Nobody cared about international law. Allow me to finish. Every single inch of Egyptian... Nobody talked about international law. Begin and Carter and Sadat talked about the reality of Israel occupying territory. Professor Morris, I know the record.
They demanded, as you know, because you've written about it, they demanded every square inch. As you know, they demanded the oil fields be dismantled. No, that's in the... The air fields be dismantled. No, not dismantled. They wanted the oil fields. And they wanted the settlements dismantled. They wanted the settlements dismantled. The settlements, the oil fields, and the air field.
They demanded all three back. You can't have... What do you mean back? The air fields weren't there. Okay, that's incorrect. You're incorrect. They built an airfield. The Israelis built an airfield in the occupied Sinai. And they wanted it back. They didn't want it back. It wasn't theirs. They wanted the territory in which Israel had built back.
The oil fields, the airfields, the settlements have to be dismantled. Yes. Begin said, I don't want to be the first prime minister to dismantle a settlement. But he did. Why? Because of the law. No. No. It's because of. The law had nothing to do with anything.
The law had nothing to do with anything. You're not listening. I've read the negotiations. There are two foreign relations of U.S. volumes on it. Nobody cares about the law. Forget the Palestinians. They weren't there. Allow me to finish. The Palestinians kept saying, we want what Egypt got. We want what Egypt got. Egypt got everything back. But nothing to do with the law. Okay.
And number two, I'm not saying it's the whole picture, but as Foreign Minister Moishe Dayan said at the time, he said, if a car has four wheels... and you remove one wheel, the car can't move. And for them, removing Egypt from the Arab front would then remove any Arab military threat to Israel. No, the first part did. And that's what the Palestinians kept saying.
We want what Egypt got from the settlement.
And by the way, one last thing, one last, on a personal note. The quote about Sharm el-Sheikh without peace, okay. That's the only thing you ever cited from a book of mine. I cited from your book? Yes. I was absolutely shocked at your betrayal of your people. That was pure treason. I apologize for that. I apologize. I accept.
Yes, I think so.
There is no hope, no. It's an extreme... No, I'm... Hey! I'm not happy to say that. Of course you are. It's a... It's a very bleak moment right now. Because... That I agree with. I agree with that. Israel believes... It has to restore what it calls its deterrence capability. I think you've written about it, actually. I just realized. Israel has to restore its deterrence capability.
And after the catastrophe of October 7th, restoring its deterrence capacity means this part you didn't write about, the annihilation of Gaza and then moving on to the Hezbollah. So the Israelis are... dead set on restoring that deterrence capability.
On the Arab side, and I know Muin and I have disagreed on it, and we're allowed to disagree, I think the Arab side, the lesson they learned from October 7th is Israelis aren't as strong as we thought they were. That would be an unfortunate message if that's really what the Arabs come to believe. And they think that there is a military option now.
And I think that it's a zero-sum game at this point. And it's very, very bleak. And I'm not going to lie about that. Now, I will admit my... predictive capacities are not perfect, are limited. But for the moment, it's a very bleak situation. And I don't see right now a way out. However, at the very minimum, Permanent ceasefire and the inhuman and illegal blockade of Gaza. Why is it illegal?
Why is it illegal? I'll tell you why. You don't rocket your neighbor. You rocket your neighbor. Expect consequences. I'll tell you why. Expect consequences. But that works both ways. I know. Professor Morris, I'll tell you why.
Because every human rights humanitarian and UN organization in the world has said that the blockade is a form of collective punishment which is illegal under international law. You think a blockade... You don't understand the way the world works. These things are irrelevant. And you think confining... Because that's the blockade. Confining a million children. That's the choice of Hamas.
Showing 261–280 of 305 · page 14 of 16
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