Patric Gagne

And over time, I expanded my reach outside of LA and I just started showing up other places, like large places. chaotic, horrific events just for no other reason than because I could be of service. And that I can be of service isn't attached to this, I guess, maybe altruism in some way, but not, there wasn't an emotional connection. It was just more matter of fact. It was, I have a high

emotional tolerance. I have a high tolerance for pathology and I could extend that tolerance to others in these moments. And I've been told by people that, that I shouldn't do this work. I shouldn't talk about it because it doesn't come from an authentic place because I don't really care.

And I find that to be just one of the core issues surrounding certain mental disorders in that if you don't care in the right way, then it doesn't count.

And it's why I wrote the book, because I really wanted people to understand that there's more to this personality type than just these sensationalized one-dimensional examples that pop culture likes to churn out over and over and over again. There is so much more to this personality.

Well, if you consider that it's 5% of the population is, that's like the clinical assessment. That's what the research indicates. But when you consider that most of the diagnostic interviews for psychopathy and sociopathy take place within the prison system, there's no way that number isn't likely much higher.

But yes, to your point, let's just stick with 5%, 100% the same as depressive disorders, bipolar disorders, borderline personality disorders. And I think that the reason that there isn't more is I read somewhere recently that viewing someone who is suffering as quote-unquote morally bad reduces compassion and desire to help in neurotypical individuals, which I found to be completely fascinating.

And my guess is that that's why so few public health resources are devoted to those disorders of aggression. psychopathy, sociopathy, antisocial personality disorder, because when neurotypical people are presented with someone like that, their ability to empathize goes straight down.

And again, that's a conversation worth having because in essence, those individuals who are having this reaction are experiencing a sociopathic reaction. And As someone for whom socialization was really tricky to understand, I'm always really perplexed by the reasoning that sociopaths don't deserve any compassion or empathy because they don't have any compassion or empathy for anyone else.

And yet these emotions are learned. They are modeled. So how can you expect somebody to demonstrate compassion or empathy if they've never experienced it for themselves?

And the research also indicates that sociopathy, even though you cannot diagnose a child as a sociopath, but it starts with oppositional defiant disorder. And what they're finding is that oppositional defiance is much more easily treated or treatable in young kids and young people. Hmm.

And I think that because it's this, nope, they're all monsters, they're all evil, throw them all and they don't deserve to have anything. We're missing the opportunity to reach those kids, to have that conversation early, to address that culture of there's only one way to feel, there's only one way to love, there's only one way to be.

But one thing I've noticed is that there has been a shift, certainly in entertainment, I was asked by a parent, if you had a child who was acting out in the way that you were, what would you say? How would you connect to that child?

And I explained, it sounds oversimplified, but the first thing I would do with a child like me is I would sit her down and I would have her watch the new iteration of Wednesday Addams, the Wednesday series on Netflix, because make no mistake, Wednesday Addams is she meets all the criteria of the sociopathic personality.

And yet that composite is so much more complete in that, yes, this is a child who is criminally versatile, who struggles to connect with the social emotions, struggles to connect with other individuals, low affect. She lies, she manipulates, she steals, and yet she is capable. It takes her a minute, but she is capable of loyalty. She is capable of deep relationships. She grieves when her pet dies.

Yes, her pet isn't that stereotypical pet, but she still grieves that pet. She fights like hell for her friends and her family. That to me truly is a more complete story. example of a sociopathic personality. So I would sit a child down and I would say, what do you think about this? How do you experience emotion? Knowing that there's no wrong answer.

And this Halloween, when I was walking around and seeing all the little Wednesday Adams, not just wearing the costume, but embodying her, refusing to smile back at me, refusing to make small talk, just really owning that whole personality. It really gave me hope for other kids like me to see that representation as opposed to the Ted Bundy examples, as I like to call it.

I think the hardest part isn't me. It's my husband, probably.

I just, he carries the greatest burden in that I don't take things personally. My husband is a hot-blooded Italian. he is very affectionate. It took him a long time to understand that I am not as affectionate as he is, but it's not personal. It's not, you're doing something wrong, therefore I'm not as affectionate. I'm just not, I don't really express affection love that way naturally.

Now he is my husband. He's my partner. I understand that there are different ways and I want him to feel love in the way that he wants to feel love. So yes, I have grown to become more affectionate, but I think for him, it's that constant reminder of don't take it personally. Don't take it personally because he also I think he's someone who likes to regulate his moods based on mine.

So he needs that constant validation vis-a-vis I'm happy, or I feel this way, I feel that way. And we have to have a lot of conversations where I have to remind him, no, how do you feel? Anchoring with you, and then we can talk about what's going on with me. But I think that