Patric Gagne

having been raised in an Italian Catholic childhood where it was all the emotions were big and his emotions were minimized for different reasons than mine were, you know, because all of the adults were loud and screaming and he learned how to take his own temperature by taking the temperature of those around him. So to marry someone like me, that's a slippery slope.

Or dysregulate. Yes. And again, you're talking probably to the wrong person because this is very much how I feel. And I had this conversation, I think it's in the book, where we were talking about acts of kindness. And my husband was saying, you know, I do these things for you. And I was saying, no, you do these things for you. You do these things because you want my joyous reaction.

When I do something, I don't tell anybody about it. And to your point, these empaths, and again, there's nothing wrong with being empathic, but yes, that word has become Almost revolting because to me, it's like, okay, oh, you're an empath, huh? Well, why didn't I see you at that huge traumatic event that happened in our neighborhood? I don't remember seeing you there.

Yes, yes. And I remember a couple years ago, a friend of ours passed just weeks after delivering a child because- she had been complaining to the doctor and the doctor basically blew her off. It was so horrendous. And I remember saying, I'm just going to go over to the house. And everyone's saying, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do that. You should just leave them alone. You shouldn't.

And I'm like, no, no, I'm just going to show up. That's what you, no, you wait. No, you just show up. And I think to your point, it's not only am I not going to do that, But I don't want you to do it either because if you do it and I don't do it, then I'm going to look bad. When the reality is it's not comfortable for me to just go to that house where this husband and child are alone and grieving.

That's not a place I want to be. So I'm just going to stay back here and you shouldn't go either because it's inappropriate. No, it's because you don't want to go. That's what's going on here.

I see a lot of moms sort of co-opting the emotional experience. So a child has failed a test. Okay. And The child is not able to have their own emotion before the mom's disappointment or anger or expectations fill that space. That's what I see. And I understand it cognitively. I can imagine how if you have these emotions

and your child is experiencing something that's activating, yes, you're going to experience those emotions, but then it becomes all about the parents and how they feel about what their kid is going through or how they feel about what they perceive as a failure. And mine is different. I don't have those reactions. And there are certainly pros and cons with that.

There are times where I wish I could relate more. I could connect deeper. But I also know that my kids feel that they can come to me with anything because... I'm going to have a response, but I'm not necessarily going to have a reaction. It's going to be their space. Dang it.

Yeah, I think it's a control out of control. You know, I understand that, yes, it must be nice to have guilt, shame, remorse, sort of forcing your hand and things, but it's not fail safe. And I think it's used as a weapon. Yes. I think like anything in moderation, sure. Guilt and shame can be very useful. The problem is it's not ever used in moderation.

Maybe you don't. No, I do. I do because something that's come up a lot recently. is I've written this book, it's out in the world and that's met with a certain expectation of emotion. And everyone's asking, aren't you so excited? Aren't you so excited? And I'm not, I don't connect that way, but I wish that I could.

And I've used this example of like the kid with her nose pressed up against department store glass. I see what excitement looks like. I see that. Yeah. And I don't, I don't have it. And I wish that I did. I do. Cause it looks like it's It looks like it's really fun at the start of all of this. When I was getting that question a lot and I was having, I had a conversation with my husband.

I was like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, I'm, I'm just, I don't experience things this way. I don't know how many times, you know, I'm feeling myself wanting to go back to the old space of like, I'm just going to lie and say that I'm excited, but I don't want to do that either. You know? So I made a list. Okay. Well, what are you excited about?

Because maybe it's not, you don't have, you can't connect to it on that, you know, sort of large global way, but there are certainly things that are exciting to to you and fellowship was exciting to me. Conversations like this were exciting in that, oh, I get to talk to other people who have

interesting things to say and we can align on some things or disagree on other things, but just the idea of being able to have these conversations, this is exciting to me. But I'm never going to be able to have those, or I so far have never been able to experience those sweeping emotions. I'm sort of glad that I'm in a place in my life where all of the milestones are done for a little bit.

Because no matter how many times I tried to tell myself to not have hope, that hope was always right there that maybe this would be the time, this graduation or this wedding or this birth. And it just never was. And I don't carry that disappointment in terms of emotional sense because what are you going to do? But yeah, I would have loved to have had that hallmark moment when my son was born.

That seems like it's probably pretty nice.

I think so because when I look at the destructive behaviors that stuck, they were always related to other people. And it was never, a lot of times people don't believe me when I say I didn't take things from the homes that I went into. And I wouldn't have dared because they were sort of sacred spaces for me.

And I think that that's why ultimately, even though I went into it kicking and screaming, working as a therapist, was the equivalent of breaking into homes. Only I was going into their minds and they were opening the door for me. I find neurotypical people to be really interesting. I enjoy hearing about what's going on and your reactions to things and how you react to them.

So I think before I really understood that I was going into those houses because I liked seeing I liked looking through people's windows. I used to do that as a kid, just stand there. Yeah, I could have stood there all night just watching these normal interactions play out and without having the pressure of a reaction or a connection. It's like, no, I'm just interested. This is interesting.