Patrick Campbell

And so, and that's, that's also a hard thing about free is like support.

You have like, like,

If you can have a free product that's better than the paid competition and the support is good, holy cow.

It's an amazing thing for your brand and your market.

So we made serious dedication that we wanted great support, even though it was free.

And so it's all cost, right?

And so you have to have a larger vision if you're doing that, which we definitely did have.

No, you don't have to lock in at all.

I mean, that's the beauty of it is I think it's purely pay for performance.

I can tell you.

Is it five?

I don't know.

But no, what it is is like,

Basically, we can establish a baseline of your recovery.

And we can do this not only for credit card failures, but also of people who hit your cancel button, how many actually churn.

And what we can do is we can establish that baseline.

And then our products are free up until that baseline.

So if you're recovering every 20 out of 100 failed payments...

The first 20%, no matter your size, is always going to be free.

And then we can calculate the revenue delta.