Patrick Freyne

Not so much anymore.

Okay.

Here's Patrick Frayn's fourth choice.

This is The Betts, An Expert in a Dying Field.

That's the best expert in a dying field.

And that is Patrick Frayn's fourth music choice today.

Listen, before we get to your final choice, can I ask you about one or two personal things you've written about?

You got burned out at one point in recent years.

What did that look like and feel like for you?

So I wrote a piece about it last year and it was from overwork and it was just me not looking after myself.

And I had to take, in retrospect, it was a really good thing.

I took three weeks off

stress leave from work and because in retrospect I feel it was a good thing I think maybe that's a good thing to happen to people every now and again What did you learn from it?

I learned that it's really important to... I mean, I've learned this a few times and had to relearn it.

Firstly, to do good work, you don't have to kill yourself working.

You know, you can actually do good work within office hours.

And secondly, I learned about just perspective, that it's really important to have other stuff in your life that...

It's really important to have time with your friends and family and to do things you like to be a full person.

And I think sometimes men in particular, but I wouldn't generalise because women get burnt out a lot too.

In fact, probably more now that I think about it and saying it out loud.