Patrick O'Shaughnessy

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We've talked a lot about energy infrastructure specifically.

Are there other parts of U.S.

infrastructure, non-energy, that interest you most?

I'd love to apply your system thinking to some other areas that you've studied carefully and been really involved with with the foundation.

Before we do that, maybe to have you describe your goal for the foundation overall.

One of the things I've heard you say that's so interesting is that foundations should get less powerful over time, individual foundations, that is.

And as someone that's running a big one, that's an interesting thought.

I'm curious why you think that.

So, yeah, maybe before getting to some of the things that you focus on, just frame why have a foundation if you just wanted to get weaker over time.

What about criminal justice?