Paul Clitheroe

And to its credit, the Commonwealth Bank, and they got a bit of flack too, by the way.

And they did, I think, the right thing.

They withdrew.

But what they did do is they actually allowed us an extra, completely independent.

As you know, James, the director, the money we have

It comes from government.

So we've got no conflict, but we were able to take over that program, not have it started afresh.

And now, obviously, we're using our funds, which are government funds.

We're using our monies to basically fund that program going forward.

But it sits there with no branding on it.

Extra is simply a not-for-profit foundation that doesn't offer credit cards or bank accounts or anything else.

So basically that in my view is obviously so their foundations funding existing programs is incredibly valuable.

And the other big thing where banks and financial institutions can be incredibly helpful is better communication to consumers about fraud.

I mean, clearly financial literacy now needs to encompass getting ripped off.

And here the banks, because here the person being ripped off is nearly always a bank customer, and the bank's ability to educate and help their consumers would be incredibly helpful to financial literacy because that is actually their business.

I don't think their business is being in schools, James.

This is the reason, in a sense, why some say to me, oh, we've seen longitudinal surveys.

indicating we're going backwards with financial literacy.

We're not going backwards with financial literacy.

Australians are getting better every year.