Paula Borrows

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Karen early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Karen early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Speaking of Proctor's wife, Elizabeth, there were texts between the two of them, too.

Speaking of Proctor's wife, Elizabeth, there were texts between the two of them, too.

Believe it or not, there was even more for which Proctor would have to explain. Perhaps the most damning exchanges were with his own colleagues. In this series of texts, Proctor was messaging a fellow trooper named DeChico about a conference call with the medical examiner.

Believe it or not, there was even more for which Proctor would have to explain. Perhaps the most damning exchanges were with his own colleagues. In this series of texts, Proctor was messaging a fellow trooper named DeChico about a conference call with the medical examiner.

In another string of texts with fellow troopers, Proctor makes light of Karen's illnesses again.

In another string of texts with fellow troopers, Proctor makes light of Karen's illnesses again.

The text continued into the summer of 2022, where in a group text with Trooper DeChico and another trooper named Kakowski, the three remark on the statement Karen gave while being processed at the police barracks after being charged with murder in the second degree.

The text continued into the summer of 2022, where in a group text with Trooper DeChico and another trooper named Kakowski, the three remark on the statement Karen gave while being processed at the police barracks after being charged with murder in the second degree.

Then, things take an even more abhorrent turn in August 2022, when Proctor finally gets the green light to go through Karen's phone himself.

Then, things take an even more abhorrent turn in August 2022, when Proctor finally gets the green light to go through Karen's phone himself.

Proctor attempted to walk back the comment about not finding nudes on Karen's phone by explaining the intended purpose of going through her phone in the first place.

Proctor attempted to walk back the comment about not finding nudes on Karen's phone by explaining the intended purpose of going through her phone in the first place.

But Proctor's possession of Karen's phone didn't last long.

But Proctor's possession of Karen's phone didn't last long.

One might say this was a rare instance of Proctor doing anything by the book. The direct examination of the Commonwealth's own witness had stained this already splashy trial. So what damage could the defense do? The following morning, Trooper Proctor returned with his tail between his legs for a fiery cross-examination with Alan Jackson.

One might say this was a rare instance of Proctor doing anything by the book. The direct examination of the Commonwealth's own witness had stained this already splashy trial. So what damage could the defense do? The following morning, Trooper Proctor returned with his tail between his legs for a fiery cross-examination with Alan Jackson.

Reporter Christina Rex, who was in the courtroom that day, remembers it as humiliating.

Reporter Christina Rex, who was in the courtroom that day, remembers it as humiliating.

And Rich Schoenstein says for the legal community, this cross was the dream scenario.

And Rich Schoenstein says for the legal community, this cross was the dream scenario.

Alan Jackson dove in headfirst by bringing up the text exchanged between Proctor and his longtime friends.

Alan Jackson dove in headfirst by bringing up the text exchanged between Proctor and his longtime friends.

Jackson then revealed that Proctor had arrived at the conclusion that the Alberts couldn't have been involved without taking one seemingly crucial step to determine that as a fact.

Jackson then revealed that Proctor had arrived at the conclusion that the Alberts couldn't have been involved without taking one seemingly crucial step to determine that as a fact.

In the two years leading up to this moment, Proctor had been portrayed by the defense and their supporters as the central figure in the cover-up theory, accused of planting and tampering with evidence, having close ties to the Albert family, and harboring a bias against Karen Reid.

In the two years leading up to this moment, Proctor had been portrayed by the defense and their supporters as the central figure in the cover-up theory, accused of planting and tampering with evidence, having close ties to the Albert family, and harboring a bias against Karen Reid.

As it turns out, there was, in fact, a time where Proctor had yet to rule out the prospect that a fight could have led to John's untimely death. But on top of that, despite receiving information from medical personnel that a fight wasn't out of the question, Proctor continued to double down on his theory that Karen deliberately hit John with her car.

As it turns out, there was, in fact, a time where Proctor had yet to rule out the prospect that a fight could have led to John's untimely death. But on top of that, despite receiving information from medical personnel that a fight wasn't out of the question, Proctor continued to double down on his theory that Karen deliberately hit John with her car.

Jackson was curious how Proctor arrived at such a rash conclusion.

Jackson was curious how Proctor arrived at such a rash conclusion.

And after being invoked in multiple reports and testimonies, on June 10th, day 22 of the trial, prosecutor Adam Lally called him to the stand in an attempt to clear his name. In the witness box, donning a navy blue suit, you got a sense that Proctor knew all eyes were on him.

And after being invoked in multiple reports and testimonies, on June 10th, day 22 of the trial, prosecutor Adam Lally called him to the stand in an attempt to clear his name. In the witness box, donning a navy blue suit, you got a sense that Proctor knew all eyes were on him.

Yes. Jackson proceeded to pull at some of the pettier comments exchanged between Proctor and his colleagues.

Yes. Jackson proceeded to pull at some of the pettier comments exchanged between Proctor and his colleagues.

In an attempt to loosen him up, Lally began the direct examination with basics from the early days of the investigation. Proctor describes seeing John O'Keefe's body for the first time in the emergency room.

In an attempt to loosen him up, Lally began the direct examination with basics from the early days of the investigation. Proctor describes seeing John O'Keefe's body for the first time in the emergency room.

Then Jackson really began to rub Proctor's nose in it.

Then Jackson really began to rub Proctor's nose in it.

For hours, they painstakingly revisited every text brought forward the day before, illuminating every inappropriate remark from commenting on Karen's medical condition to her appearance. And though Proctor previously stated his regret, Jackson wasn't buying any of it.

For hours, they painstakingly revisited every text brought forward the day before, illuminating every inappropriate remark from commenting on Karen's medical condition to her appearance. And though Proctor previously stated his regret, Jackson wasn't buying any of it.

He never did. After much ado about the texts, Jackson called Proctor's relationships with the witnesses into question. In pretrial testimony, Proctor had stated to the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office that he did not know any members of the Albert or McCabe families.

He never did. After much ado about the texts, Jackson called Proctor's relationships with the witnesses into question. In pretrial testimony, Proctor had stated to the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office that he did not know any members of the Albert or McCabe families.

Proctor and Jackson take a few minutes to get on the same page.

Proctor and Jackson take a few minutes to get on the same page.

After observing John at Good Samaritan Hospital, Proctor and Massachusetts State Police Sergeant Yuri Bukenik then made their way to Dighton to interview Karen at her parents' home. That's when he first observed the alleged murder weapon, Karen's SUV.

After observing John at Good Samaritan Hospital, Proctor and Massachusetts State Police Sergeant Yuri Bukenik then made their way to Dighton to interview Karen at her parents' home. That's when he first observed the alleged murder weapon, Karen's SUV.

This damning testimony from the lead investigator in the case against Karen Reed ended in another sustained objection. When the court returned from a midday break, Jackson called attention to ring video footage from John O'Keefe's home that Proctor was entrusted with investigating.

This damning testimony from the lead investigator in the case against Karen Reed ended in another sustained objection. When the court returned from a midday break, Jackson called attention to ring video footage from John O'Keefe's home that Proctor was entrusted with investigating.

Yet, the video was nowhere to be found. Jackson played the surveillance footage for the court.

Yet, the video was nowhere to be found. Jackson played the surveillance footage for the court.

Correct. No argument there, but it still doesn't account for what happened to it. Jackson dug deeper in hopes of getting to the bottom of the fate of the ring footage. And as it turns out, Proctor wasn't the only trooper tasked with reviewing the tape.

Correct. No argument there, but it still doesn't account for what happened to it. Jackson dug deeper in hopes of getting to the bottom of the fate of the ring footage. And as it turns out, Proctor wasn't the only trooper tasked with reviewing the tape.

Two reports. In DeChico's, the 1241 a.m. footage of Karen arriving home was seen. And in Proctor's, it's nowhere to be found. What could explain this?

Two reports. In DeChico's, the 1241 a.m. footage of Karen arriving home was seen. And in Proctor's, it's nowhere to be found. What could explain this?

Before Jackson could get closer to a solid answer for the missing video, Lally objected. We'll sustain.

Before Jackson could get closer to a solid answer for the missing video, Lally objected. We'll sustain.

No, there isn't. It appeared the court couldn't expect this piece of the puzzle to be wrapped up in any sensical way. And with the day already running long, Jackson had to make the most of the rest of his time with one of the case's star witnesses.

No, there isn't. It appeared the court couldn't expect this piece of the puzzle to be wrapped up in any sensical way. And with the day already running long, Jackson had to make the most of the rest of his time with one of the case's star witnesses.

He used this as an opportunity to sum up every instance of unethical conduct and also present a particularly alarming text that had yet to come to light.

He used this as an opportunity to sum up every instance of unethical conduct and also present a particularly alarming text that had yet to come to light.

Karen's car was put on a tow truck for transfer to the Sally Port garage, where the defense had previously alleged Proctor and Buchanek tampered with the taillight. With that allegation in mind, Lally got right in front of it.

Karen's car was put on a tow truck for transfer to the Sally Port garage, where the defense had previously alleged Proctor and Buchanek tampered with the taillight. With that allegation in mind, Lally got right in front of it.

After Alan Jackson brings up this juicy and alarming detail that Canton Police Officer Kevin Albert allegedly left his gun and badge in Trooper Proctor's cruiser, Prosecutor Lally objected. It was sustained by Judge Canone, never to be elaborated on.

After Alan Jackson brings up this juicy and alarming detail that Canton Police Officer Kevin Albert allegedly left his gun and badge in Trooper Proctor's cruiser, Prosecutor Lally objected. It was sustained by Judge Canone, never to be elaborated on.

Proctor's two days on the stand may have been over, but what came out of them reverberated within the courtroom walls and beyond. Here's attorney Jennifer Roman with her reflections on how Proctor performed.

Proctor's two days on the stand may have been over, but what came out of them reverberated within the courtroom walls and beyond. Here's attorney Jennifer Roman with her reflections on how Proctor performed.

And attorney Will Corman anticipated bigger consequences than just character assassination alone.

And attorney Will Corman anticipated bigger consequences than just character assassination alone.

Will isn't far off. After Proctor's time on the stand made the national news cycle, droves of spectators called for his immediate termination. Here's Christina Rex with what came in the aftermath.

Will isn't far off. After Proctor's time on the stand made the national news cycle, droves of spectators called for his immediate termination. Here's Christina Rex with what came in the aftermath.

While Proctor claimed to have never come into physical contact with the SUV, another piece of evidence was seized that day he wouldn't be able to deny having his hands all over.

While Proctor claimed to have never come into physical contact with the SUV, another piece of evidence was seized that day he wouldn't be able to deny having his hands all over.

But much to the disappointment to those left appalled in the days after his testimony, it isn't quite that easy.

But much to the disappointment to those left appalled in the days after his testimony, it isn't quite that easy.

A process the Massachusetts State Police will have no choice but to face.

A process the Massachusetts State Police will have no choice but to face.

Because ultimately, as Ian Runkle notes, it doesn't reflect well on the Massachusetts State Police and demands significant internal changes. Not to mention, it calls into question every case he's ever laid a hand on.

Because ultimately, as Ian Runkle notes, it doesn't reflect well on the Massachusetts State Police and demands significant internal changes. Not to mention, it calls into question every case he's ever laid a hand on.

Regardless of your views on the guilt or innocence of Karen Reid, you have to at least acknowledge that no matter what, the behavior of Trooper Michael Proctor and his handling of evidence compromised this case from the jump.

Regardless of your views on the guilt or innocence of Karen Reid, you have to at least acknowledge that no matter what, the behavior of Trooper Michael Proctor and his handling of evidence compromised this case from the jump.

Suddenly, Proctor's direct examination took a hard pivot. His opportunity to settle the score on the allegedly botched investigation would soon be fully eclipsed by a nearly two-day deep dive into what came after getting that warrant signed off.

Suddenly, Proctor's direct examination took a hard pivot. His opportunity to settle the score on the allegedly botched investigation would soon be fully eclipsed by a nearly two-day deep dive into what came after getting that warrant signed off.

That's all coming up on the final episode of Karen. This has been a Law and Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Borrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Our editor is Corey Hiltman. Our researcher is Stephanie Doucette. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. Legal and fact-checking by Elizabeth Voulay.

That's all coming up on the final episode of Karen. This has been a Law and Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Borrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Our editor is Corey Hiltman. Our researcher is Stephanie Doucette. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. Legal and fact-checking by Elizabeth Voulay.

And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art. Follow Karen in the Wondery app. You can binge the entire series early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art. Follow Karen in the Wondery app. You can binge the entire series early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

In an ironic turn of events, Karen's phone wasn't the one on trial, and Lally made both a bold and curious choice to dive headfirst into the suggestion made in the defense's opening remarks.

In an ironic turn of events, Karen's phone wasn't the one on trial, and Lally made both a bold and curious choice to dive headfirst into the suggestion made in the defense's opening remarks.

Presented with a thick stack of papers, records of nearly two years' worth of his personal text messages verbatim, Proctor looked like a deer in headlights.

Presented with a thick stack of papers, records of nearly two years' worth of his personal text messages verbatim, Proctor looked like a deer in headlights.

External investigations, both internally at the Massachusetts State Police and by the federal government, are what brought said text messages to light. And they would completely change the course of Proctor's long-awaited time on the stand.

External investigations, both internally at the Massachusetts State Police and by the federal government, are what brought said text messages to light. And they would completely change the course of Proctor's long-awaited time on the stand.

At the request of Adam Lally, Michael Proctor began by reading texts exchanged with childhood pals the night of January 29th, 2022, the night John O'Keefe died.

At the request of Adam Lally, Michael Proctor began by reading texts exchanged with childhood pals the night of January 29th, 2022, the night John O'Keefe died.

From this exchange, one could discern that Proctor was not only asserting that because the homeowners were law enforcement, that they would be impervious to further investigation, but that he'd also already made up his mind, mere hours into the developing case, that Karen was the culprit.

From this exchange, one could discern that Proctor was not only asserting that because the homeowners were law enforcement, that they would be impervious to further investigation, but that he'd also already made up his mind, mere hours into the developing case, that Karen was the culprit.

Legal analyst Rich Schoenstein says these texts made one thing crystal clear.

Legal analyst Rich Schoenstein says these texts made one thing crystal clear.

And the more he read from his own text exchanges, the deeper the hole that Proctor was digging for himself became.

And the more he read from his own text exchanges, the deeper the hole that Proctor was digging for himself became.

The text had gone from bad to worse. In what world could this ever be perceived as appropriate behavior by a law enforcement officer? Lally wanted to know.

The text had gone from bad to worse. In what world could this ever be perceived as appropriate behavior by a law enforcement officer? Lally wanted to know.

Lally also got clarity on just how long it took Proctor to arrive at his decision that Karen Reed was undeniably John's killer.

Lally also got clarity on just how long it took Proctor to arrive at his decision that Karen Reed was undeniably John's killer.

On the stand, Proctor may have displayed regret for his disparaging and inexcusable remarks, but one could argue that was merely hindsight because days following the death of John O'Keefe, he continued to text with his buddies, this time with pictures.

On the stand, Proctor may have displayed regret for his disparaging and inexcusable remarks, but one could argue that was merely hindsight because days following the death of John O'Keefe, he continued to text with his buddies, this time with pictures.

Karen Reed suffers from both multiple sclerosis and Crohn's disease, two chronic and debilitating illnesses. How would Proctor even begin to explain himself for mocking something so private and sensitive?

Karen Reed suffers from both multiple sclerosis and Crohn's disease, two chronic and debilitating illnesses. How would Proctor even begin to explain himself for mocking something so private and sensitive?

Proctor's communication about Karen and the investigation wasn't limited to his old friends. He discussed it with family, too.

Proctor's communication about Karen and the investigation wasn't limited to his old friends. He discussed it with family, too.

From Law & Crime, I'm Paula Borrows, and this is Karen. It would be an understatement to say that Michael Proctor's reputation preceded him. He was arguably the most anticipated and buzzworthy witness in the case of the Commonwealth versus Karen Reed.

From Law & Crime, I'm Paula Borrows, and this is Karen. It would be an understatement to say that Michael Proctor's reputation preceded him. He was arguably the most anticipated and buzzworthy witness in the case of the Commonwealth versus Karen Reed.

So, as it turns out, Trooper Proctor's sister Courtney has connections to the Alberts. Remember, it was how he began the conversation. The ethics of sharing information about the case with her, in particular, are certainly questionable. Proctor felt otherwise.

So, as it turns out, Trooper Proctor's sister Courtney has connections to the Alberts. Remember, it was how he began the conversation. The ethics of sharing information about the case with her, in particular, are certainly questionable. Proctor felt otherwise.

Sharing private case details with a family member? Requesting that Courtney keep her mouth shut? The conversation certainly strayed from innocent to concerning. Fast. And just when you think it can't possibly get any worse... These are messages from February 1st, 2022, is that correct?

Sharing private case details with a family member? Requesting that Courtney keep her mouth shut? The conversation certainly strayed from innocent to concerning. Fast. And just when you think it can't possibly get any worse... These are messages from February 1st, 2022, is that correct?

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Karen early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Karen early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

But that wasn't the end of the I hit him back and forth. On day four, ambulance driver Katie McLaughlin, a friend of Brian Albert's daughter, Caitlin Albert, reignited the debate on the stand.

But that wasn't the end of the I hit him back and forth. On day four, ambulance driver Katie McLaughlin, a friend of Brian Albert's daughter, Caitlin Albert, reignited the debate on the stand.

Katie told Trooper Proctor what she had heard, but Jackson wanted to get a sense of who else she reported it to.

Katie told Trooper Proctor what she had heard, but Jackson wanted to get a sense of who else she reported it to.

Yes. The problem with Katie's testimony is that, again, this wasn't noted in any report.

Yes. The problem with Katie's testimony is that, again, this wasn't noted in any report.

Once what was said at the scene of John O'Keefe's death had been belabored, attention was then called to what was done. Remember, how the evidence was collected and handled following the discovery of John's body had raised questions from the jump.

Once what was said at the scene of John O'Keefe's death had been belabored, attention was then called to what was done. Remember, how the evidence was collected and handled following the discovery of John's body had raised questions from the jump.

On May 6th, day five of the trial, Lieutenant Paul Gallagher, who was responsible for preserving the scene, was called to the stand to explain some of the questionable evidence handling.

On May 6th, day five of the trial, Lieutenant Paul Gallagher, who was responsible for preserving the scene, was called to the stand to explain some of the questionable evidence handling.

Alan Jackson had his chance to cross-examine Gallagher.

Alan Jackson had his chance to cross-examine Gallagher.

Former crime scene investigator Alina Burroughs says standard crime scene or not, how the blood was collected created what she deemed to be a particularly glaring issue.

Former crime scene investigator Alina Burroughs says standard crime scene or not, how the blood was collected created what she deemed to be a particularly glaring issue.

And Alina highlights the fact that the cups weren't the only atypical and problematic tools used for evidence that day.

And Alina highlights the fact that the cups weren't the only atypical and problematic tools used for evidence that day.

But Lieutenant Gallagher gave his rationale for the leaf blower.

But Lieutenant Gallagher gave his rationale for the leaf blower.

Prosecutor Lally, referencing a video playing in the courtroom, asked about the efficacy of Gallagher's snowblower method.

Prosecutor Lally, referencing a video playing in the courtroom, asked about the efficacy of Gallagher's snowblower method.

Remember, in the pre-trial hearings, the prosecution presented pieces of Karen's taillight that were allegedly found too. But that's not what Lieutenant Gallagher remembered. Attorney Jackson grills him.

Remember, in the pre-trial hearings, the prosecution presented pieces of Karen's taillight that were allegedly found too. But that's not what Lieutenant Gallagher remembered. Attorney Jackson grills him.

No taillight pieces, just glass. This revelation sparked an entirely new avenue for the defense to go down. Why investigators never entered Nicole and Brian Albert's home.

No taillight pieces, just glass. This revelation sparked an entirely new avenue for the defense to go down. Why investigators never entered Nicole and Brian Albert's home.

Alan Jackson saw this as an opportunity to support his team's cover-up theory and pivoted to a rather provocative question.

Alan Jackson saw this as an opportunity to support his team's cover-up theory and pivoted to a rather provocative question.

Reporter Ted Daniel, who covered the trial, remembers the probable cause issue was raised by multiple first responding officers.

Reporter Ted Daniel, who covered the trial, remembers the probable cause issue was raised by multiple first responding officers.

And on day seven of the trial, suggestions were made by Karen's defense that the house wasn't properly searched due to the ties between the Albert family and the Canton Police Department.

And on day seven of the trial, suggestions were made by Karen's defense that the house wasn't properly searched due to the ties between the Albert family and the Canton Police Department.

Sergeant Michael Lank, in a blue suit and spiked hair graying at his temples, was cross-examined by Attorney Jackson, honing in on his relationship to the Alberts, specifically Kevin, a detective with the Canton Police. The two go way back.

Sergeant Michael Lank, in a blue suit and spiked hair graying at his temples, was cross-examined by Attorney Jackson, honing in on his relationship to the Alberts, specifically Kevin, a detective with the Canton Police. The two go way back.

Jackson brought Lieutenant Lank back to the morning of January 29th.

Jackson brought Lieutenant Lank back to the morning of January 29th.

And when Sergeant Link arrived, he made a curious decision. He allowed all witnesses at the scene to talk amongst themselves. At most crime scenes, this is not standard practice.

And when Sergeant Link arrived, he made a curious decision. He allowed all witnesses at the scene to talk amongst themselves. At most crime scenes, this is not standard practice.

Jackson's question drew a sustained objection, but that didn't make Lank's judgment call to not separate witnesses any less mystifying. The defense pivoted to Lank's other reported observations at the scene.

Jackson's question drew a sustained objection, but that didn't make Lank's judgment call to not separate witnesses any less mystifying. The defense pivoted to Lank's other reported observations at the scene.

The defense now had a first responding investigator say out loud that the alternative theory wasn't out of the question. Lenk himself ascertained that day a fight could have broken out at 34 Fairview Road.

The defense now had a first responding investigator say out loud that the alternative theory wasn't out of the question. Lenk himself ascertained that day a fight could have broken out at 34 Fairview Road.

Inside the cramped, wood-paneled courtroom, a jury of 12 was seated, six women and six men, holding the fate of one of their peers in their hands. Judge Beverly Cannone opened the day emphasizing that the future of the defendant, Karen Reid, hung in the balance, and that their attention to every detail would be crucial to bringing about justice in this case, however they interpret justice.

Inside the cramped, wood-paneled courtroom, a jury of 12 was seated, six women and six men, holding the fate of one of their peers in their hands. Judge Beverly Cannone opened the day emphasizing that the future of the defendant, Karen Reid, hung in the balance, and that their attention to every detail would be crucial to bringing about justice in this case, however they interpret justice.

But that indication wasn't given until days later.

But that indication wasn't given until days later.

By the looks of it, Lank took Jennifer McCabe's recall as fact, giving Karen's defense a perfect opportunity to cast more reasonable doubt.

By the looks of it, Lank took Jennifer McCabe's recall as fact, giving Karen's defense a perfect opportunity to cast more reasonable doubt.

Unlike Lieutenant Gallagher, Sergeant Lank did enter Nicole and Brian Albert's home. Jackson saw this as an excellent opportunity to explore another one of his team's theories.

Unlike Lieutenant Gallagher, Sergeant Lank did enter Nicole and Brian Albert's home. Jackson saw this as an excellent opportunity to explore another one of his team's theories.

But Lank made it nowhere near the basement.

But Lank made it nowhere near the basement.

The furthest he got inside the house was the entryway. No other rooms were entered, let alone searched.

The furthest he got inside the house was the entryway. No other rooms were entered, let alone searched.

Jackson wanted answers to Alina's question, too.

Jackson wanted answers to Alina's question, too.

Lieutenant, that's all I'm asking.

Lieutenant, that's all I'm asking.

There's that probable cause again. By Langstone testimony, the search seemed to begin and end there.

There's that probable cause again. By Langstone testimony, the search seemed to begin and end there.

Lenk himself states that he could envision a scenario where a fight occurred resulting in John O'Keefe's death and a body being left outside the house. And yet, to him, this wasn't considered probable cause. From the outside looking in, this was high-key problematic.

Lenk himself states that he could envision a scenario where a fight occurred resulting in John O'Keefe's death and a body being left outside the house. And yet, to him, this wasn't considered probable cause. From the outside looking in, this was high-key problematic.

Based on all this, it's clear neither the scene of the alleged crime nor the witnesses were ever properly secured. By day nine of the trial, it finally came time to hear from the homeowners themselves.

Based on all this, it's clear neither the scene of the alleged crime nor the witnesses were ever properly secured. By day nine of the trial, it finally came time to hear from the homeowners themselves.

Nicole Albert was called to the stand first. In her testimony, Nicole attempted to settle the score once and for all about what occurred in her house the night John O'Keefe never made it home.

Nicole Albert was called to the stand first. In her testimony, Nicole attempted to settle the score once and for all about what occurred in her house the night John O'Keefe never made it home.

Prosecutor Lally wanted to get a sense of just how well Nicole and her husband were acquainted with Karen and John in the first place, taking her back to the hours spent at the waterfall bar and grill before the after party.

Prosecutor Lally wanted to get a sense of just how well Nicole and her husband were acquainted with Karen and John in the first place, taking her back to the hours spent at the waterfall bar and grill before the after party.

From Nicole's testimony, there was no denying their familiarity with John O'Keefe. Her husband, Brian Albert, testified to essentially the same thing.

From Nicole's testimony, there was no denying their familiarity with John O'Keefe. Her husband, Brian Albert, testified to essentially the same thing.

But their familiarity with Karen Reed was a whole nother story. In prior statements, Brian Albert claimed he had never met Karen Reed before. And in an attempt to strip Brian of his credibility, Jackson called his claim into question.

But their familiarity with Karen Reed was a whole nother story. In prior statements, Brian Albert claimed he had never met Karen Reed before. And in an attempt to strip Brian of his credibility, Jackson called his claim into question.

And just like that, suspicion was cast on Brian Albert, and Jackson continued to play into it.

And just like that, suspicion was cast on Brian Albert, and Jackson continued to play into it.

Brian Albert's cross-examination bled into May 13th, day 10 of the trial. This is when the defense saw an opportunity to tee up another one of their alternative theories for John's cause of death.

Brian Albert's cross-examination bled into May 13th, day 10 of the trial. This is when the defense saw an opportunity to tee up another one of their alternative theories for John's cause of death.

But there's a bit of an issue following this lead.

But there's a bit of an issue following this lead.

Not five months after John O'Keefe wound up dead on Brian and Nicole's front lawn, they rehomed their dog, Chloe. Brian claimed they made the decision to part with their furry friend of nearly seven years after she was involved in a dog fight in May 2022. Attorney Jennifer Roman says this detail piqued the interest of conspiracy theorists and could create even more confusion for the jury.

Not five months after John O'Keefe wound up dead on Brian and Nicole's front lawn, they rehomed their dog, Chloe. Brian claimed they made the decision to part with their furry friend of nearly seven years after she was involved in a dog fight in May 2022. Attorney Jennifer Roman says this detail piqued the interest of conspiracy theorists and could create even more confusion for the jury.

Brian's testimony revealed their family dog wasn't the only one rehomed.

Brian's testimony revealed their family dog wasn't the only one rehomed.

Absolutely not. They sold the house. The scene of the crime. In a case riddled with perceived missteps and holes, layers of coincidences like these complicated matters further for those keeping a close eye on the trial. With each passing day of the trial of the Commonwealth v. Karen Reed, it seemed witnesses left the jury with more questions than answers. And day 11 was no different.

Absolutely not. They sold the house. The scene of the crime. In a case riddled with perceived missteps and holes, layers of coincidences like these complicated matters further for those keeping a close eye on the trial. With each passing day of the trial of the Commonwealth v. Karen Reed, it seemed witnesses left the jury with more questions than answers. And day 11 was no different.

Attorney Jennifer Roman says this was not an enviable position to be in.

Attorney Jennifer Roman says this was not an enviable position to be in.

Prosecutor Lally called that young woman, Julie Nagel, to the stand.

Prosecutor Lally called that young woman, Julie Nagel, to the stand.

A lot in this case could be considered an understatement.

A lot in this case could be considered an understatement.

Yes. Yannetti cross-examined Julie Nagel for the defense.

Yes. Yannetti cross-examined Julie Nagel for the defense.

Yes. Julie's revelation was likely not the only part of her testimony that piqued the jury's interest. After all, her testimony states that she left with other people. What do they remember?

Yes. Julie's revelation was likely not the only part of her testimony that piqued the jury's interest. After all, her testimony states that she left with other people. What do they remember?

One of those people in attendance was another member of the Albert clan.

One of those people in attendance was another member of the Albert clan.

an additional witness who played nicely into the defense's theory about the Alberts and a possible cover-up.

an additional witness who played nicely into the defense's theory about the Alberts and a possible cover-up.

Alan Jackson wanted to know.

Alan Jackson wanted to know.

The photograph entered into evidence by the defense, taken less than a month after O'Keefe was found dead, showed Colin Albert's right knuckles scraped, scabbed, and bruised, injuries one could possibly connect to striking someone with a fist. But Colin Albert maintained there was no fight and that he had simply slipped on ice and fallen in the driveway, breaking his fall with his right hand.

The photograph entered into evidence by the defense, taken less than a month after O'Keefe was found dead, showed Colin Albert's right knuckles scraped, scabbed, and bruised, injuries one could possibly connect to striking someone with a fist. But Colin Albert maintained there was no fight and that he had simply slipped on ice and fallen in the driveway, breaking his fall with his right hand.

With no guarantee of a unanimous verdict.

With no guarantee of a unanimous verdict.

But was his story convincing enough in the eyes of the jury?

But was his story convincing enough in the eyes of the jury?

That's all coming up on the next episode of Karen. This has been a Law and Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Borrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Our editor is Corey Hiltman. Our researcher is Stephanie Doucette. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. Legal and fact-checking by Elizabeth Voulay.

That's all coming up on the next episode of Karen. This has been a Law and Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Borrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Our editor is Corey Hiltman. Our researcher is Stephanie Doucette. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. Legal and fact-checking by Elizabeth Voulay.

And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art. Follow Karen in the Wondery app. You can binge the entire series early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art. Follow Karen in the Wondery app. You can binge the entire series early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Making the ultimate decision more difficult for them, despite the deafening buzz around the case, the two people at the heart of it remained somewhat of an enigma.

Making the ultimate decision more difficult for them, despite the deafening buzz around the case, the two people at the heart of it remained somewhat of an enigma.

And the lack of information about John O'Keefe's cause of death created another perplexing hurdle this jury would have to maneuver.

And the lack of information about John O'Keefe's cause of death created another perplexing hurdle this jury would have to maneuver.

The jury was looking at a projected six to eight weeks to get to the bottom of that question. In opening statements, the prosecution and defense could not have presented more paradoxical arguments. Prosecutor Adam Lally approached the stand first, wearing a black suit with a checkered tie. Karen sat between her attorneys, David Iannetti and Alan Jackson, as Adam presented his side's position.

The jury was looking at a projected six to eight weeks to get to the bottom of that question. In opening statements, the prosecution and defense could not have presented more paradoxical arguments. Prosecutor Adam Lally approached the stand first, wearing a black suit with a checkered tie. Karen sat between her attorneys, David Iannetti and Alan Jackson, as Adam presented his side's position.

but that couldn't be further from the way David Yannetti saw things.

but that couldn't be further from the way David Yannetti saw things.

Keen ears noticed that omitted from Yannetti's opening statement was any explicit mention of who the someone else could be. But all that was required was enough reasonable doubt that it was not Karen. John O'Keefe's brother Paul was the first person called to the stand.

Keen ears noticed that omitted from Yannetti's opening statement was any explicit mention of who the someone else could be. But all that was required was enough reasonable doubt that it was not Karen. John O'Keefe's brother Paul was the first person called to the stand.

In a blue checkered button-down, he began his testimony painting a picture of his adoring older brother John, a dedicated family man and a loving partner to Karen, despite a few arguments between the two he had witnessed here and there. Then, he emotionally recalled the moment he saw John's lifeless body at Good Samaritan Hospital.

In a blue checkered button-down, he began his testimony painting a picture of his adoring older brother John, a dedicated family man and a loving partner to Karen, despite a few arguments between the two he had witnessed here and there. Then, he emotionally recalled the moment he saw John's lifeless body at Good Samaritan Hospital.

And Paul remembered John wasn't the only person he observed at the hospital that morning.

And Paul remembered John wasn't the only person he observed at the hospital that morning.

Karen's emotional exclamations came under further scrutiny on day two when Timothy Nuttall, Canton firefighter and paramedic who treated John O'Keefe the morning his body was discovered, was cross-examined.

Karen's emotional exclamations came under further scrutiny on day two when Timothy Nuttall, Canton firefighter and paramedic who treated John O'Keefe the morning his body was discovered, was cross-examined.

But this isn't what every first responder heard.

But this isn't what every first responder heard.

Yannetti directed this line of questioning to Strawberry Blonde Canton Police Officer Stephen Mullaney. He was there the morning of January 29th, 2022. I did not.

Yannetti directed this line of questioning to Strawberry Blonde Canton Police Officer Stephen Mullaney. He was there the morning of January 29th, 2022. I did not.

The confusion as to whether or not Karen confessed at the scene continued when another first responder, Canton Fire Department Lieutenant Anthony Flamati, recounted a conversation he had with her in which he alleged she uttered, I hit him. Oh my God, I hit him. But Attorney Jackson called attention to video from the scene that would cast doubt on Flamati's memory.

The confusion as to whether or not Karen confessed at the scene continued when another first responder, Canton Fire Department Lieutenant Anthony Flamati, recounted a conversation he had with her in which he alleged she uttered, I hit him. Oh my God, I hit him. But Attorney Jackson called attention to video from the scene that would cast doubt on Flamati's memory.

While their conversation wasn't caught on tape, there was apparently evidence that Flamati related to a police officer in the investigation.

While their conversation wasn't caught on tape, there was apparently evidence that Flamati related to a police officer in the investigation.

From Law & Crime, I'm Paula Borrows, and this is Karen. Outside Norfolk County Superior Court, on the brisk morning of April 29, 2024, a massive crowd was forming. The Free Karen Reid Movement, sequestered to their sanctioned area, were gathered, sporting pink shirts and holding handmade signs showing their support on this fateful spring day, the first day of Karen Reid's trial.

From Law & Crime, I'm Paula Borrows, and this is Karen. Outside Norfolk County Superior Court, on the brisk morning of April 29, 2024, a massive crowd was forming. The Free Karen Reid Movement, sequestered to their sanctioned area, were gathered, sporting pink shirts and holding handmade signs showing their support on this fateful spring day, the first day of Karen Reid's trial.

Onlookers of the trial thought it was curious that the exchange was notable enough to share with an officer, but somehow was overlooked in the official report.

Onlookers of the trial thought it was curious that the exchange was notable enough to share with an officer, but somehow was overlooked in the official report.

It's hard to imagine that a detail as crucial and memorable as a confession could be omitted. Here's attorney Matt Timpanik with how he understood the confusion here.

It's hard to imagine that a detail as crucial and memorable as a confession could be omitted. Here's attorney Matt Timpanik with how he understood the confusion here.

Karen's utterances in the wake of discovering John's body were further probed on day three of the trial, when Adam Lally called upon firefighter and paramedic Francis Walsh to draw on his memory of that dramatic morning. Francis recalled there were three women on the scene, who we now know to be Carrie Roberts, Jennifer McCabe, and Karen Reed, all of whom were visibly shaken up, especially Karen.

Karen's utterances in the wake of discovering John's body were further probed on day three of the trial, when Adam Lally called upon firefighter and paramedic Francis Walsh to draw on his memory of that dramatic morning. Francis recalled there were three women on the scene, who we now know to be Carrie Roberts, Jennifer McCabe, and Karen Reed, all of whom were visibly shaken up, especially Karen.

Yannetti got his chance to cross-examine Lally's witness.

Yannetti got his chance to cross-examine Lally's witness.

Is he alive is a far cry from a definitive, I hit him. Paramedic Matthew Kelly testified that he heard a similar utterance.

Is he alive is a far cry from a definitive, I hit him. Paramedic Matthew Kelly testified that he heard a similar utterance.