Philippa Perry

You have to go with what you can work with.

It's nicer than swimming in a swimming pool because you're out in nature and stuff.

But the downside is that it's cold.

But you can get used to the cold.

It does get the blood pumping for sure.

Yeah, I'm working towards getting there.

I love that.

And the other thing about the book is that I've made some characters that I hope you enjoy hanging out with.

Her friends, her frenemies, her enemies.

You can just imagine a friend of yours and – I say friend – and put them in the book and you know they're so vain they're never going to recognise themselves.

I love it.

And character fiction was Pat Phillips maybe 15 years ago.

And she was an imperfect therapist then and she's an imperfect therapist now.

In fact, we have a session in the book with her, with her supervisor, who does quite a lot of trying to not pat back into some sort of therapeutic shape rather than become a sleuth.

Do you still do that?

I meet up once a year with 50 psychotherapists for a week.

I like to get it all over.

you know, in one week.

And we all go to Mexico and we take over a convent and it's like a campus and we hang out and we do therapy on each other intensely for a week.

Wow.