Pisco

And it's unclear.

A lot of courts have construed the statute as requiring dual intent.

That is to say, you're not just trying to do the actions that disrupt, but for the purpose either to restrict some kind of reproductive service or to restrict people's First Amendment rights with respect to religious freedoms.

And so one argument you could see the protesters making is, well, we're not here to disrupt politics.

religious services and religious freedoms this is us trying to like whistle blow on um the pastor with respect to his dealings with ice has nothing to do with their religious expression now whether our core ultimately will buy that as a distinction for the dual intent purposes unclear but you can see the kind of arguments we didn't physically obstruct we didn't use force we didn't use threats and um you know we don't have that intent right interesting

It's force, threat or physical obstruction.

You need to show one of them.

threat of force.

Um, and, and threat is interpreted by courts in the context of true threats.

These are, uh, a first amendment standard that are like, they're not protected by a first amendment jurisprudence.

And they usually require some like reasonable person to apprehend that they're actually trying to put you in fear of bodily harm of some kind.

And so if you're not seeing these, these, uh, protesters shouting things like we're going to hurt you, we're going to like, uh,

kill you or something like that, or, you know, wielding some kind of weapon to put them in fear, probably less likely for the threat prong.

The physical obstruction, that's where, like, the more complicated analysis is.

And there are tons of decisions that try to interpret what physical obstruction means.

Can it be constructive obstruction?

Most courts say no, not constructive obstruction.

But can it include... What does that mean, constructive obstruction?

A kind of... That's what Sager does.

Where you're kind of making it like more difficult and you're not actually physically blocking at all, but you're making it like difficult for them to go into the given area, either the reproductive health service center or into the church.