Professor Alison Wood Brooks

The one about listening did like a fraction of that.

It's interesting as to why they don't think it's important.

I think we think of things, active things.

Yeah.

Listening is easy.

Just say nothing.

Mike Baker, who's another spy, who was a spy for 20 years, I think, with the CIA in America, said to me that much of the job of being a spy and persuading and manipulating a target in a foreign land to give over secrets.

He said to me that he would, for example, let's just say it was in Afghanistan.

He would land in Afghanistan.

He would find the taxi driver that was driving the government official who he wanted secrets from.

And he said to me, he might spend seven weeks in that taxi doing nothing but listening to this guy.

Listening to the taxi driver.

Because he said most people in their life have not had someone listen to them uninterrupted for like 10 minutes.

And when you listen to someone, they will offload about themselves.

Exactly.

And I was like, so what are you doing?

And when you're listening, he was just asking them and just, you know, asking a follow-up question.

And they would take me down the path they wanted to take me.

And by week seven of the eight weeks, I would understand what motivates them.

That's right.