Rachel Abrams

Presumably, they were fine knowing that she had represented Jeffrey Epstein for the reasons that you articulated.

But this idea that this would go farther sounds like that was what was untenable, unpalatable.

Right.

And for those reasons, I actually want to talk about somebody else who's sort of similarly interesting, and that's Brad Karp, the former longtime chairman of the law firm Paul Weiss.

He's really interesting in part because our audience might remember that he got a lot of flack a few months back when his firm made a deal with the Trump administration that in exchange for providing tens of millions of dollars in free legal advice, they would be perhaps taken off the target list of

of the law firms that the administration was going after.

And people were furious about that.

There were attorneys who left the firm.

The firm got a ton of blowback.

But he survived, and he did not survive what was in the Epstein files.

What do you make of these two cases, these two people, two lawyers who had given different levels of legal advice, of course, but also maintained a friendship with this man long after it was known that he was a sexual predator?

Right.

And just to put a finer point on it, our legal system relies on the idea that everybody deserves a criminal defense.

But if you're not even his attorney, this really just seems like a favor to your friend who you know is a sexual predator.

When you have no evidence, you have not reviewed the case files, you don't know whether this guy is innocent as an attorney.

Right.

Right.

It's another thing.

Right.

Exactly.