Rachel Abrams

Today, my colleague Michael Crowley on the phone call between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin and what it tells us about how the conflict could end. It's Wednesday, May 21st. Michael, nice to speak with you. I don't think we've ever met before.

Yeah, our pleasure. So, Michael, we want to talk to you about this two-hour phone call that happened between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that happened on Monday. But before we get there, we haven't really checked in on the war between Russia and Ukraine since that disastrous Oval Office meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky.

Yeah, our pleasure. So, Michael, we want to talk to you about this two-hour phone call that happened between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that happened on Monday. But before we get there, we haven't really checked in on the war between Russia and Ukraine since that disastrous Oval Office meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky.

I want to understand what happened in between Trump and Zelensky kind of blowing up at each other and this call that was, I think, pretty remarkable in a few ways.

I want to understand what happened in between Trump and Zelensky kind of blowing up at each other and this call that was, I think, pretty remarkable in a few ways.

Let's start at the beginning of that winding road. What was the immediate fallout from that meeting?

Let's start at the beginning of that winding road. What was the immediate fallout from that meeting?

So how did President Zelensky respond to all of this at the time?

So how did President Zelensky respond to all of this at the time?

And so what happened then?

And so what happened then?

So it sounds like Zelensky, in saying, sure, I'm open to a deal, kind of put the onus on Putin and in so doing exposed Putin as being much less willing to negotiate the Trump may have expected or wanted. Like, it sounds quite shrewd on the part of Zelensky is what I'm getting at.

So it sounds like Zelensky, in saying, sure, I'm open to a deal, kind of put the onus on Putin and in so doing exposed Putin as being much less willing to negotiate the Trump may have expected or wanted. Like, it sounds quite shrewd on the part of Zelensky is what I'm getting at.

He's strung Trump along.

He's strung Trump along.

So what happens after Trump starts getting angry at Putin?

So what happens after Trump starts getting angry at Putin?

Am I correct in saying that this is like the strongest language we've ever seen from Trump up until this point?

Am I correct in saying that this is like the strongest language we've ever seen from Trump up until this point?

I remember seeing the photos. It was really stunning.