Rachel Abrams

So, Pam, we haven't talked about abortion on the show for a while. And in the years since Roe v. Wade fell, the country has kind of splintered into states where abortion is banned and states where abortion is not banned. And that's just sort of been the state of play, that everybody has their own state laws that they have to abide by. But in reality...

So, Pam, we haven't talked about abortion on the show for a while. And in the years since Roe v. Wade fell, the country has kind of splintered into states where abortion is banned and states where abortion is not banned. And that's just sort of been the state of play, that everybody has their own state laws that they have to abide by. But in reality...

as you have been paying attention to and covering, there's actually been this showdown brewing that now looks poised to upend that whole order that we've maybe grown a bit accustomed to in the last few years.

as you have been paying attention to and covering, there's actually been this showdown brewing that now looks poised to upend that whole order that we've maybe grown a bit accustomed to in the last few years.

Okay, so let's talk about SHIELD laws. First of all, what are they?

Okay, so let's talk about SHIELD laws. First of all, what are they?

And how exactly do these shield laws say they would protect the providers?

And how exactly do these shield laws say they would protect the providers?

So even though these providers are doing something that is legal in their state, those states are being extra cautious, right? They're basically saying, hey, don't worry, we are not going to let you get into trouble.

So even though these providers are doing something that is legal in their state, those states are being extra cautious, right? They're basically saying, hey, don't worry, we are not going to let you get into trouble.

Right. It's not just like money and time and child care, which I guess is maybe a form of money and time, but it's also about privacy. Who needs to be involved in this process? Who do you have to tell? Who needs to know about something that is, for many women, very deeply private?

Right. It's not just like money and time and child care, which I guess is maybe a form of money and time, but it's also about privacy. Who needs to be involved in this process? Who do you have to tell? Who needs to know about something that is, for many women, very deeply private?

Those pills, just to be clear, are the drugs mifepristone and misoprostol.

Those pills, just to be clear, are the drugs mifepristone and misoprostol.

So instead of providers just treating women who come to their states where abortion is legal, what you've described is abortion providers essentially bringing the abortion to these women in their states where abortion is not legal. And I think that sounds pretty risky for the providers, no?

So instead of providers just treating women who come to their states where abortion is legal, what you've described is abortion providers essentially bringing the abortion to these women in their states where abortion is not legal. And I think that sounds pretty risky for the providers, no?

I know, Pam, that we've said on the show before that since Dobbs, abortions have actually gone up, which feels kind of surprising. Is this the reason why?

I know, Pam, that we've said on the show before that since Dobbs, abortions have actually gone up, which feels kind of surprising. Is this the reason why?

We'll be right back. Pam, tell us about the case that you mentioned before the break, the one that anti-abortion activists have been waiting for. Who was involved? What was it about?

We'll be right back. Pam, tell us about the case that you mentioned before the break, the one that anti-abortion activists have been waiting for. Who was involved? What was it about?