Rachel Bernstein

speaker

90 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Apr 2025 last heard Apr 2025

Rachel Bernstein’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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Nobody Should Believe Me · Case Files 15: Everyday Cults with Rachel Bernstein · 10 Apr 2025 podcast

I was seated closer to her. If I needed that, I would have been in. And I would have thought, this is how I get what I need. And here I go, right? It was so dangerous.

Right, absolutely right. And it's interesting because even with Munchausen by proxy, I could see feeling sorry for the person who engages in this, but it feels to me, and I don't want to say this in such a harsh way, but it gets to like all bets are off when a child is harmed, when a child gets in the way of this and is then inextricably tied. If someone were just...

out there needing a lot of attention, needing a lot because they felt very empty, I would offer help. I would feel compassion. A lot of these things that we hear about when people have their own issues or their own trauma history, it's an explanation, but it's not an excuse. And so that kind of distinction for me is where it shifts emotionally for me. It's hard to have compassion after a while.

So I think about the people who have cult leaders, let's say, malignant narcissistic partners, people who engaged in abuse of a variety of sorts who, let's say, are in jail. And then they still have the people outside. the jail outside the courthouse chanting, showing their allegiance, setting up websites and support, raising money for their appeals.

There is a part of people, I think, that wants to not see. And when you decide that you don't want to see something, you can be very good at at keeping blinders on. And it's an important thing to look at why some people do that. I see it as for some people, it would shake their foundation so much that they resist wanting to see.

Other people are going to be worried about what it's going to make them aware of. Like once you start to see, then will it have a domino effect that will be so devastating? Like all the times that you let that person be with your child. And you didn't intervene.

Now do you have to look at all of those times and all of the symptoms your child might have started to have and all the times you didn't jump in to protect them? And all the times maybe you had a sense or an inkling and your conscience was telling you something and you ignored it. That's also very hard to look at.

So I think a lot of people are kind of protecting the perpetrator because they're protecting themselves. And then... You have the people, I think, who are concerned, and rightfully so, that the system is going to be against women and against mothers. Because it's, by and large, women who are engaging in this, and not all, but most. And then... Yes, women are not believed.

Women are not believed when they bring a story of rape to the courts. They're not believed when they go to the doctor about having certain symptoms and things are overlooked and they're told they're hysterical. And so I think there are people who get tangled in this in a way that gets messy because they're there championing the rights of women.

And then there are other people who just have a mistrust of the legal system, have a mistrust of the medical system who are also involved in this. But I do think that people who are close, like a father-in-law, I think he might feel like he's being a really good person.

And he might feel like he is able to be the superhero here when everyone else is against someone and he just hasn't seen it or he doesn't want to see it. So it's kind of... For a lot of reasons, it winds up being something that, at the end of the day, leaves the child totally unprotected.

So, right. So yes, there is the sunk cost fallacy. It's also, it gets ramped up when it's not just that you're like putting your money into multi-level marketing. These are the people you love. These are the people who you're trying to protect. Or that you might have to look at having not protected. So I do think that it is very hard for people to be open to seeing.

Some people are able and they have more wherewithal. They have more personal strength. They have more ability emotionally to take things on. You're one of those people. And not everyone is like that.

And there are a lot of people who would much rather just go back into the dark and do the la, la, la, la, la, Mary had a little, because that's just where they need to live their life because they think that's the only way for them to survive. And it could be that they just don't have the emotional ability to have the courage or the strength. to really look.

What's also true, and this is actually why a lot of cults and even narcissistic partners will often have the person they're controlling speak on behalf of them and speak on behalf of the cult or do recruiting and kind of share the party line about how wonderful it is and how wonderful this person is.

Because once you say something out loud, there is the part of our social psychology and human psychology that makes us feel like we have to back that up. And we have to stick with the messaging because then who are we? Did we just lie about all of that? We have to save face. So that adds another layer, I think, of the worry of social shame.

And so what are the concerns that are keeping you not seeing and not wanting to see what you probably have already seen, even in little bits? And so to get into that discussion, I think, is where you can actually make the most inroads, helping people talk about their fears. And also that they have to start their life all over again. Maybe they're worried about being single again.

Maybe they're worried about losing their whole community. Maybe they're worried about losing their own parents because if the in-laws are in support, then fine. You know, will they lose their own parents? So what is what's the cost here for them? And what's the worry about that?

And then I think once people get the courage to leave when they feel their feelings are understood, when they feel supported in their abject panic over doing it or really looking. then they can make those decisions in, I think, a bit of an easier way to leave. But they need to know they're not leaving into an abyss, leaving everything and everyone behind, but they'll be supported.

They'll have community. That actually... It helps quite a bit. But yeah, it takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing, even though it might not feel that way for you because it feels more natural for you. It would probably feel wrong of you to not do it.

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