Red Széll

Yeah, I mean, I love books that explore our relationship with danger, with putting yourself at risk.

And actually, this is R.C.

Shaw talks very much about this in...

the interview I've just been talking about, tells me why he goes surfing.

He explains what pushes him to go surfing.

And remember, as he says, the only people who welcome a hurricane and run into the jaws of it are surfers because it provides him with the best waves.

As you can hear in this clip.

Yeah, it's a freedom and a total focus on what you're doing and the moment in which you're doing it.

And a freedom from daily care.

And I get exactly the same from climbing.

And to be honest,

I get the same from dipping into a really good travelogue or adventure story.

It's really unsettling, but it is again a triumph of human resilience over

Over overwhelming odds.

Exactly.

They go there, so we don't have to, Jacob.

I must say, I find bad nonfiction utterly unbearable.

And...

Good nonfiction makes you forget that you're being taught something.

It's more like being guided by a trusted and informed friend.