Rita Kozlov
speaker
102 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Oct 2024
last heard Oct 2024
Rita Kozlov’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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if you're looking for something really serverless, workers is just, it's going to be better. And yeah, we've had so many conversations with people over the years where they would be like, why doesn't Cloudflare just let me run a container? And you would start asking them questions of, you know, okay, well, what would you do if we let you do that?
And they'd be like, okay, well, I have a Go application and I just want to run it on Cloudflare's Edge. It's like, okay, do you want to run it in all 200 data centers? And sometimes they would be like, yeah. And you're like, okay, do you want to pay for it to be running 200 times? Yeah.
And they're like, no, you know, or like the other trade off that people didn't realize is like, okay, well, now our request can hit any one of these 250 data centers and. it's going to cold start. So you got closer to the user, but your net performance is negative, not positive, right? Is that what you want? And people are like, oh, haven't thought about that. No, that's not what I want.
And so that's where I really think the devil is going to be in the details and in the use cases and Yeah, I think a lot of the interesting possibilities are going to be where we can abstract away a lot of that by combining it with things like durable objects, where in most cases, I guarantee you actually don't need a container running in 250 data centers.
But we have the ability to be really smart about where we place your container so that it is always warm, so that it is closer to user's You can do a lot of things that, you know, where serverless was traditionally kind of associated with stateless. All of a sudden you can maintain state and do things like, you know, build games and all that kind of stuff.
So, and, you know, again, if I think about some of our use cases for it. Um, something like CICD, I think is a great example where it's something that's slightly longer running. It's not on the critical path of, it's not something that you expect to be instantaneous, right?
So we can kind of schedule it wherever we can actually in this instance, make it really cheap because, uh, you know, during certain times of day, we have data centers that don't receive as much traffic. We can schedule it over there and pass the cost savings onto you. So I think in some ways, uh,
Yeah. You touched on two things that I think are really interesting, maybe three. But the first is, you know, that setting up Kubernetes and scheduling everything was kind of how you'd always done stuff. And I think that in that way, You know, people always ask, like, what's the best DX? And I think the best DX is the thing that you're used to.
That's the thing that's always going to – it's not an objective thing, right? It's actually – it's going to be the thing that feels the fastest to you. And that's something that we think about a lot is, like, how do we – we have this actually pretty different programming paradigm.
And so how do we expose it in a way that does feel familiar so that you don't feel like you're relearning everything because – When you do have to do that, it does feel like this really big hurdle of like, Okay, I know that my way of doing this is inefficient and requires like five for loops and that doesn't make sense, but at least I'll get it done and I can call it a day.
So, yeah, you know, that's why we've been working on the NodeCompat stuff and I think that containers is going to go a really long way there of just giving people something to hold on to that feels familiar and kind of get started from that. But, yeah, I think that the second thing that's really interesting here is, to your point, it did...
All of that compliance stuff didn't matter to you when you were building as an individual. And at the same time, you know, that difference between like $15 and $45 felt really significant to you. And I feel like that's where things sometimes get lost in the Twitter conversation too. You know, I think it's great that there's such a big community of people. You know, I think we're both that way.
We just like to build stuff in our spare time. And it's a great way to learn new technologies. But what you need for, you know, your business, blog or your side project or whatever is so different from the requirements of a company. And that's where, yeah, knock yourself out setting up Docker on a $5 VPS. It just doesn't matter.
But when you're running in production and you're doing this as a part of a multi-million, multi-billion dollar business where literally every second of latency correlates with revenue, where, yeah, you have compliance requirements to meet, where, you know, people's time really adds up.
If you think about, you know, the cost of an engineer, $100,000 even starts to look pretty small compared to, you know, all of the alternatives. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's going to become even more interesting in some ways in the AI age where... the productivity of a single person can go so much further in some ways, right?
And so, yeah, I do wonder if especially, yeah, like as a small startup, as a team of three, you can go so far so fast just bootstrapping things and building in a serverless way that, yeah, I wonder if there's going to be like even more and more scrutiny over, you know, build versus buy and what's the, you know, liability of growing a team.
I think also to your point about if you're managing a bunch of servers and then you look at something like the cloud and you're like, oh, that's so much more expensive and I'm still managing Servers, if you've been doing that and you have a team that has that in-house expertise, then it makes sense to keep doing that in some way.
But if I think back to your comment about the product is growing, we need to hire more people in order to keep up with customer demand and all of that. The availability of talent, I think, is something that everyone in this industry struggles with. And so then I think the question also becomes, you know, I think your odds of being able to hire someone that's really capable and
I think that there's this aspect of, sorry, I'm struggling to think of the word, but barrier to entry effectively. You can get a really smart engineer that if you give them the tools that they need vis-a-vis serverless can get running just slinging code versus I think finding people
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