Rob Walling

I don't know of a seven or eight figure tiny seed founder that has outsourced or delegated their marketing and sales before they hit a few million in ARR. Now, a lot of folks may hire a head of growth or a head of marketing, but it's to take over an effort that's already in play. You've heard me talk a lot on this podcast about zero to one and how hard that is as a marketer or as a salesperson.

And as the founder, I'm a staunch believer that you need to keep that under your own purview. Until you've proven it out and you've built it into a process that can be handed off to someone else. So thanks for that question, Tobey. I hope it was helpful. My next question is from Miguel Sarenas.

And as the founder, I'm a staunch believer that you need to keep that under your own purview. Until you've proven it out and you've built it into a process that can be handed off to someone else. So thanks for that question, Tobey. I hope it was helpful. My next question is from Miguel Sarenas.

And Miguel asks, how do you decide to do it yourself versus hire a growth agency to do paid ads, SEO partnerships, etc.? So this actually piggybacks really well on the last point that I was making earlier. is that in general, there are a few roles in a SaaS marketing department, right? There's marketing strategy, which is deciding, I don't know, what do we try next? What do we do next?

And Miguel asks, how do you decide to do it yourself versus hire a growth agency to do paid ads, SEO partnerships, etc.? So this actually piggybacks really well on the last point that I was making earlier. is that in general, there are a few roles in a SaaS marketing department, right? There's marketing strategy, which is deciding, I don't know, what do we try next? What do we do next?

Where do we put our efforts? So it's very strategic thinking, high level. There is marketing implementation, which is where you're an individual contributor and you are clicking the buttons in the Google AdWords console. You are writing the articles or editing the articles and building links and doing that work of SEO.

Where do we put our efforts? So it's very strategic thinking, high level. There is marketing implementation, which is where you're an individual contributor and you are clicking the buttons in the Google AdWords console. You are writing the articles or editing the articles and building links and doing that work of SEO.

Or in terms of partnerships, you are going out and building the relationships yourself and getting all that done. So those are individual contributor roles or folks who are actually boots on the ground. And then the third role really is project management, which is kind of making sure everything gets done.

Or in terms of partnerships, you are going out and building the relationships yourself and getting all that done. So those are individual contributor roles or folks who are actually boots on the ground. And then the third role really is project management, which is kind of making sure everything gets done.

And there's more nuance than this, but fundamentally, that's how I think about a SaaS marketing department, especially in the early stage. So the question of how do you decide to DIY versus hire a growth agency is that as the founder, I would not try to outsource marketing strategy. And frankly, project management, maybe I would hire somebody to do it.

And there's more nuance than this, but fundamentally, that's how I think about a SaaS marketing department, especially in the early stage. So the question of how do you decide to DIY versus hire a growth agency is that as the founder, I would not try to outsource marketing strategy. And frankly, project management, maybe I would hire somebody to do it.

But realistically, marketing strategy, deciding what to do in what order, how many resources to put behind it, that's something that me as the founder, I would want to learn how to do. In the old days, when I was truly, truly bootstrapping and had almost no money, I then had to go learn the marketing approaches. So I also was the Google Ads person. I was the person doing SEO.

But realistically, marketing strategy, deciding what to do in what order, how many resources to put behind it, that's something that me as the founder, I would want to learn how to do. In the old days, when I was truly, truly bootstrapping and had almost no money, I then had to go learn the marketing approaches. So I also was the Google Ads person. I was the person doing SEO.

I was the person doing partnerships because that's what I had to do. Now, if I'd had any funding, I would have hired out those individual roles. And so these days, if you have any modicum of money... And you can pay someone who really knows Facebook ads or really knows Instagram ads or really knows Google ads or LinkedIn ads or Twitter ads.

I was the person doing partnerships because that's what I had to do. Now, if I'd had any funding, I would have hired out those individual roles. And so these days, if you have any modicum of money... And you can pay someone who really knows Facebook ads or really knows Instagram ads or really knows Google ads or LinkedIn ads or Twitter ads.

I like coming up with a strategy and then hiring someone to implement that specific approach. And the reason is, is that if you try to learn it and you try LinkedIn ads and they don't work, you don't know if you're not good at them or if they don't work for your business or your customer type.

I like coming up with a strategy and then hiring someone to implement that specific approach. And the reason is, is that if you try to learn it and you try LinkedIn ads and they don't work, you don't know if you're not good at them or if they don't work for your business or your customer type.

But if you hire someone who you think is pretty good and you get references and you pay them a couple grand a month for three months and they run them and it just doesn't work, you at least have some modicum of confidence that LinkedIn ads for now probably aren't the best fit for your business.

But if you hire someone who you think is pretty good and you get references and you pay them a couple grand a month for three months and they run them and it just doesn't work, you at least have some modicum of confidence that LinkedIn ads for now probably aren't the best fit for your business.

And so individual contributor marketing roles and sales roles, frankly, like SDR, BDR stuff, are things that I consider hiring out before, you know, a million, two million, three million. And when you're on a budget, let's say you're doing 20K a month, you don't have the money to hire an amazing growth marketer.