Robin Brooks

So when global uncertainty goes up, for example, Liberation Day tariffs, Swedish krona actually does well.

So I would put the Swedish krona in the same bucket as gold, silver, platinum, you name it.

It is this safe asset.

What exactly is going on with dollar debasement, I think, is a separate question.

Incidentally, the dollar is up today because the FOMC minutes talked about hikes, and that surprised the market.

So I think there's clearly a flight to safety.

What exactly people are fleeing from isn't quite clear yet.

Yeah.

Well, we know that in the United States, fiscal policy is kind of out of control.

Yeah.

Debt is on a trajectory that is not good at all.

Deficits are out of control.

The thing is, that's true for many other countries too.

Yeah.

Everyone is in trouble on fiscal.

And so in a relative sense, the United States is worrying, but relatively speaking, it doesn't look that bad.

So when you look at, for example, risk premium in the bond market on treasuries over other comparably measured government bonds in other countries, actually the United States smells like roses.

It sounds crazy.

So I think...

Where we are is that there's a debasement trade, for sure.