Ronan Farrow

And Altman said, well, I never said that either.

According to an account from someone there, and we talked about all the people involved, you can see the exact reporting.

But the gist is, you know, he will often in the same moment reflect the different views and desires.

He is a profoundly, by his own telling, conflict-averse person.

And I think the piece holds a lot of sympathy for the reality of that emotionally and the understandability of that, the relatability of that.

but it also doesn't explain it away.

This is a trait that is present in him to a truly extraordinary extent that has ramifications for his businesses and for the world.

I think it's important to say sometimes people see heavy-duty investigative reporting from The New Yorker, maybe particularly my work, and they think this is a hit piece about a villain.

I would, of course, dispute that characterization.

We look at these complex problems fairly.

In this case in particular, though, this is something different than cases where we're looking at a single clear-cut criminal allegation.

There are people in Silicon Valley who think of Sam Altman as a villain.

For what it's worth, I emerged from this reporting not thinking of Sam Altman as a villain.

I think he is a complicated character.

I think he often believes what he is saying in the moment.

I think what he says about this being rooted in conflict aversion is very likely real.

Mm-hmm.

And as one person close to him told us in the piece, he really seems to lack any self-doubt.

So that is a superpower.

He believes it, I think, when he says it.