Ross Douthat

David won.

He wins.

Yes, yes, that's fair.

But what advice, then, do you give David in this?

What is the sling and the stone, if we're going to extend the metaphor?

And what, I mean, apart from saying, you know, okay, you need better grassroots organizing, you need better fundraising, and so on, what is the actual...

political strategy?

Like, you're here in D.C., you know, March for Life just happened.

There's been a lot of argument among pro-lifers about what the Trump administration is or isn't doing.

What is your view of how the Trump administration has handled the abortion issue?

What do you think, without betraying private confidences, just as a pundit, let's say, God help you, what do you think is the big impediment?

But

But the political problem is if you took this step, it would be seen as a very big national pro-life step.

And the administration thinks that would be unpopular.

But again, in terms of the political problem, yes, there is a version of the pro-choice position that is sort of sweeping, comprehensive, and only held by a minority of the country.

But the view that abortion should be available in some form is a popular position.

Just to preview the goals of this conversation, I want to end with that question of persuasion, one-on-one, but I want to stay with the political for the moment, because persuasion is by definition a long-term project, maybe not a 50-year project, but at least a long-term project.

In the meantime, the pro-life movement needs a way to make political progress, slash

defend the territory that it has, slash speak to people who are deeply conflicted on the issue?

And is there a zone of incrementalism and compromise that you're comfortable with in that area?