Ross Douthat

And I mean, I think one interesting thing that

people who are pro-choice don't always realize is that a lot of, especially early pro-life activism, was very female-dominated, right?

You're not, in fact, you're an exceptional figure, but not an exceptional figure, right?

Yeah, so in that sense, though, there's a way in which a kind of secular, male-dominated conservatism...

maybe is just inherently less interested in the pro-life cause?

Do you think that's a possibility?

And if so, what does the pro-life movement do about that sort of changing reality of the conservative coalition?

And there are many, obviously, very pro-life men.

I just think of it as... I go on the internet.

I'm familiar with what Gen Z right-wingers on social media are talking about.

And it is immigration, civilizational battles, arguments about Israel, race, racism, these kind of things.

This is sort of the zone of...

and abortion doesn't seem central to that, just as an observer.

Interesting.

Here and there.

Ongoing.

On that idealistic argument, that's an argument that's very hard for me to imagine the current president of the United States making in those terms.

Himself, you're saying.

Himself, himself.

I mean, basic question, do you think Donald Trump is pro-life?