Ruben Azizian

So with that caveat, I will say, yes, definitely distance is not a problem.

And I would think that Russia is very active because Russia wants to be heard, seen.

And one of the ways by doing that is degrading and discrediting information.

the Western democracy and Western values.

I mean, you compare Russia Today program with Soviet TV programs.

Soviet TV programs were all about how great Soviet Union is.

And most Soviet people who were watching that were turned off TV at the time because they see that was a complete lie.

But Russia Today doesn't praise necessarily Russia.

Russia Today tries to discredit the West.

And of course, the West has so many shortcomings.

I mean, this is a democracy.

This is people don't like each other.

People can compete with each other.

You have all sorts of issues.

And Russian propaganda uses that.

So in that sense, infiltration through social media, other ways into New Zealand society, democratic values is part of the business of intelligence communities.

And what we see in Russia is probably close to an ideal political system for Mr Putin, where he's basically the new czar, the new leader.

Not exactly a communist dictator, but someone who keeps everything under control.

There is not much dissent.

Interestingly also, I was asked a question recently, is Putin left-wing or right-wing?